Wow. That's so unfortunate, especially after being named the top fourth official in MLS Next Pro in August.
Not to make any excuses but a total of 4 subs entered in the 84th minute. Just about the only good news...Rhode Island did score twice very late and won the match that was played 3-1.
It's amazing that these things still happen. I was at the MetroStars match (before they rebranded to Red Bulls) when Clint Mathis returned from the 2002 World Cup. He was ready to come in around the 70th minute since he had just flown in the previous day. The fans go nuts since they see him getting ready to come in at midfield. After several minutes of conversations on the sideline, Clint goes back to the bench unhappy. This was pre-Twitter and social media, so we had no idea what was going on. When I got home, it was reported that the 4th official saw he wasn't on the roster and the assistant coach whose duty it was to put him on was fired on the spot.
Las Vegas Lights Football Club · : Before our match against Rhode Island FC on Sunday afternoon, there was an administrative error on our match day roster submission. Unfortunately, Vaughn Covil was not officially listed on the roster submitted to the league and officials prior to kickoff, meaning he was ineligible to participate in the match. Because he entered the match in the 84th minute, the USL Championship has issued a 3-0 forfeit in favor of Rhode Island FC due to the use of an ineligible player. As the Sporting Director of Las Vegas Lights FC, I take full responsibility for everything that happens with our technical staff. Ultimately, the buck stops with me as the leader of the sporting department. On behalf of the club, I want to apologize to our supporters who support us home and away, our staff who work tirelessly to execute our vision, and our players who give everything on the field to achieve our goals. While the result of the match does not change significantly, this is a serious mistake with serious consequences. After conducting an internal review of Sunday’s events, we have already made significant changes internally to ensure this does not happen again. Our fans and our community deserve the best. As we move forward, we will continue striving to deliver success and professionalism in everything we do. Thank you for your support. --- Gianleonardo Neglia Sporting Director, Las Vegas Lights FC
How much is something like this really on the referee or the 4th, realistically? Did the 4th do something wrong that most other officials would do right in this scenario? I doubt it. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I have never seen a fourth official at a professional game cross-reference a full roster when checking in subs to make sure the player checking into the match is on the roster. I actually feel like this is a weird one where the expectation of the fourth official is actually higher at the amateur level. In a pro game, let’s be real: the responsibility is like 99% on the team to not sub in a player who isn’t on the roster. A fourth official isn’t going to have the whole roster memorized, and it’s not practical for them to check the roster for everybody at once when making four subs at the same time. And the teams know they can’t get away with it because the truth will come out when the statistics and final match reports are entered; the league will catch them even if the fourth doesn’t notice in real time. At the amateur level, where you really do have UPSL (and similar) teams who will try to pull a fast one, and really no league oversight to catch these infractions, 4ths need to be more diligent in making sure the players subbing in are already checked in. When I’m fourth in those games, next to my substitution chart in one of my notebooks, I maintain a small list of jersey numbers of all players I’ve checked in for this exact reason. Maybe fourths do / should do that on professional games. But I kind of doubt it. At the pro level, this is essentially the team’s responsibility, and they have no incentive to try to circumvent these rules because it will be caught post-game.
Not really sure that I agree with much of this, but yes the Team does share a significant burden of blame (which credit to them that they have accepted)...but if the Team needs to submit a roster to the referee crew, then it must be checked as the subs enter (even if there are 4 made at the same time). If not, then what is the purpose of submitting a roster to them at all other than the need for names associated with any sanctions?
I'm pretty sure this will be viewed as a failure on the 4th. Most of the guys I work with have a copy of the rosters with them. One thing that can help with this is, as a 4th, count the number of subs on the bench at the start of the game and at the start of the second half. While not fool proof (a player walks in late), we can establish if there are too many, someone is in the technical area that shouldn't be. This happened in the MLS during/post covid when the teams were using digital match rosters.
Arguably, this is on whoever checked the rosters/players in and verified eligibility. In some of those higher level cup competitions here, that is a staff member, not a member of the officiating crew, so the responsibility for ensuring that everyone in the technical area is eligible as per the roster is done in advance (and starting lineups confirmed by staff, etc), and taken out of the hands of the 4O. Having said that, is it a good idea to verify the numbers on the field and bench match the game sheet before kickoff? Definitely, especially if a starting 11 has to be submitted, because an error there may affect substitutes available.
I still think that the 4O is required to check the subs against the pre-match roster before allowing the substitution.
This is something for a 4O to check during warmups. There are lots of administrative duties to be done while the on-filed crew is warming up like checking the psi on the match balls, speaking with the trainer, checking the wet-bulb, and verifying jersey colors (amateur levels). Verifying rosters (including subs) is one of these tasks.
I already provided an example of former National Team Clint Mathis being ready to come in and then returning to the bench because the assistant screwed up. It was the involvement of the 4th official. Granted this was a while ago, but I doubt much has changed about whose responsibility it is at the pro level currently.
if they’re not on the official team roster… what are they doing in the TA?!? You “technically” cannot give them misconduct… it’s a major error on the 4th. I’d also bet because it looks like the referee came over mid game to look at roster, she saw they messed up. I bet the broadcasters picked up because they’re given a roster and potential substitutes and probably informed the 4th of the mistake thru red cap. I wouldn’t be surprised if the WHOLE crew gets reprimanded or faces blowback.
USOC qualifier with a questionable goal https://bsky.app/profile/nycosmossc.bsky.social/post/3m2zzeyfg5k2n
Players immediately protesting no goal and the opponents aren't noticeably celebrating wasn't enough for this CR to think something was amiss? Aside from the fact that the side netting moved like a barn door and should have been seen by the AR, would anyone think less of the referee if he lifted the net to show there is a gap there and restarted with a goal kick? I am assuming he didn't change his mind since I can't locate the match on YouTube.
I'm sure people here already know this but 1. Zip ties are a cheap way to be the hero when fixing nets 2. These are the most important areas for the net to be connected If necessary, remove clips from any other parts of the goal netting to make sure those areas are completely secure. I've had games where the back netting is flapping completely free because I removed all the clips to make sure those sections are securely fastened
Some of the grounds these supposedly “serious” amateur clubs play on are an absolute joke. What’s the referee going to do, not start the match? I guess that depends on the rules of competition. But most of the UPSL (etc.) fields in my area have the same problem, so unless there’s a coordinated effort, it’s not practical for a referee to demand that a match cannot be played without this being fixed. And with a net like that, unfortunately mistakes like that are bound to happen. Anyone here who thinks it couldn’t happen to them is either ignorant or lying.
It is appalling at higher levels not to get a net fixed—though sometimes those af hoc fixes can come undone. Where there are lousy nets, Rs and ARs should be aware of where those issues are so they can be attuned to key in. And of course be in good position. Worst non goal awarded I ever saw was with dual refs who both liked staying back at the half way line. Shot was taken that went over the cross bar and hit the supporting bar that went across a couple of feet behind the goal. A forward jokingly headed it in. As both teams got ready for a goal kick, the R way up the field awarded the goal . . .
We're already aware that the crew failed by not checking the nets. Everyone is hung up on this. I was hoping to read here what folks, in a comparable competitive match would have done even though the AR (out of camera range) is probably running up the line and maybe indicated "Goal" through the comm (can't tell if he's wearing one). Would your answer be "Sorry folks, somebody didn't tie goals down...it's a goal" or would you use common sense that the entire defense is telling you the ball went through the side and the other team doesn't go all-out to celebrate?
I think that’s really a THTBT. It’s one of those questions that doesn’t have a great answer. (Like many scenarios where there is a blunder.)
You just have to call what you see. There’s really no two ways about it. If you thought it went in, you give the goal, if you thought it didn’t, you don’t. Check the nets beforehand and fix them up as best as possible. Report issues to the competition authority. Etc.
Failed to check, checked inadequately, or checked and something happened during match to dislodge. There are multiple options here beyond just "failed to check" full stop. But agreed it's not the most interesting aspect. I mean, the straightforward answer is you call what you saw. There are scenarios where a referee has a better angle than the AR to see this wasn't a goal. And there are some where he doesn't. But the point is if you think it's a goal in real time and your AR thinks it's a goal in real time, that's going to be the answer you go with. Context clues might make you feel weird about it, but unless you see it the other way or are unsighted enough that you're unsure right from the beginning, they probably aren't enough on their own to make you go in the other direction. If you (or your AR) do have a hunch that it's not a goal or one of you flat-out sees it correctly as no goal, it becomes all about selling it. Someone needs to clearly and demonstratively initiate the in-person conversation (comms do not cut it here). Have a quick consultation. Try to very clearly and firmly wave off people following or approaching you. And then walk with some purpose over to the net. I think the overall feeling of the players will dictate whether or not you visually annul the goal first and then go to the net to fix it (and consequently show your proof) OR you sort of leave it ambiguous as you walk to the goal and then use the gaping hole as your evidence to make the decision there. There are a few different ways to go about this but a semi-animated in-person conversation will go a long way.