2025 MLS Match Day 19 Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by ManiacalClown, Jun 13, 2025.

  1. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Greater Pittsburgh
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    PRO's website is down again.

    Thursday, June 12
    -------------------------
    New York City FC vs Atlanta United FC
    Yankee Stadium (7:30p ET)

    REF: Sergii Boiko
    AR1: Jeffrey Swartzel
    AR2: Stephen McGonagle
    4TH: Ricardo Montero Araya
    VAR: José Carlos Rivero
    AVAR: Jonathan Johnson


    Friday, June 13
    ---------------------
    Portland Timbers vs San Jose Earthquakes
    Providence Park (7:30p PT)

    REF: Victor Rivas
    AR1: Felisha Mariscal
    AR2: Tyler Wyrostek
    4TH: Joshua Encarnacion
    VAR: David Barrie
    AVAR: Fabio Tovar


    I'll post the crews for Saturday when PRO confirms them...
     
  2. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Anyone know what is going with the PRO website? Why is it down so often and why have the stripped it down so much?

    There used to be a roster, stats, etc.
     
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  3. Thegreatwar

    Thegreatwar Member

    Seacoast United
    May 28, 2015
    New Hampshire
    POR-SJ Rivas’ disciplinary line hasn’t been great. He opted for yellow on a high kick that could’ve been given as red, gave an SPA yellow where the attacker arguably did the holding, then early in the 2nd half gives a SYC for a step on the end of the foot that’s not usually a yellow. I’m disappointed TBH, because he’d been basically flawless last time I watched him.
     
  4. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Greater Pittsburgh
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    PRO's website is even more down than it was before


    Saturday, June 14
    ------------------------
    St. Louis CITY SC vs Los Angeles Galaxy
    Energizer Park (3:30p CT)

    REF: Marcos DeOliveira
    AR1: Jason White
    AR2: Kevin Lock
    4TH: Trevor Wiseman
    VAR: Kevin Stott
    AVAR: TJ Zablocki


    Columbus Crew vs Vancouver Whitecaps FC
    Lower.com Field (7:30p ET)

    REF: Guido Gonzales Jr
    AR1: Jose Da Silva
    AR2: Mike Nickerson
    4TH: Greg Dopka
    VAR: Kevin Stott
    AVAR: Jozef Batko


    New England Revolution vs FC Cincinnati
    Gillette Stadium (7:30p ET)

    REF: Filip Dujic
    AR1: Oscar Mitchell-Carvalho
    AR2: Meghan Mullen
    4TH: Calin Radosav
    VAR: Younes Marrakchi
    AVAR: Robert Schaap


    Philadelphia Union vs Charlotte FC
    Subaru Park (7:30p ET)

    REF: Ricardo Montero Araya
    AR1: Ian McKay
    AR2: Eric Weisbrod
    4TH: Benjamin Meyer
    VAR: Michael Radchuk
    AVAR: Fabio Tovar


    Austin FC vs New York Red Bulls
    Q2 Stadium (7:30p CT)

    REF: Rosendo Mendoza - 100th whistle
    AR1: Adam Wienckowski
    AR2: Matthew Rodman
    4TH: Ricardo Fierro
    VAR: David Barrie
    AVAR: Claudiu Badea


    Chicago Fire FC vs Nashville SC
    Soldier Field (7:30p CT)

    REF: Alexis Da Silva
    AR1: Corey Rockwell
    AR2: Bruno Rizo
    4TH: Atahan Yaya
    VAR: Kevin Terry Jr
    AVAR: TJ Zablocki


    Houston Dynamo FC vs CF Montréal
    Shell Energy Stadium (7:30p CT)

    REF: Lorenzo Hernandez
    AR1: Kali Smith
    AR2: Gianni Facchini
    4TH: Sergii Boiko
    VAR: Carol Anne Chénard
    AVAR: Joshua Patlak


    Sporting Kansas City vs FC Dallas
    Children's Mercy Park (7:30p CT)

    REF: Sergii Demianchuk
    AR1: Kyle Atkins
    AR2: Corey Parker
    4TH: Thomas Snyder
    VAR: Daniel Radford
    AVAR: Brian Dunn


    Minnesota United FC vs San Diego FC
    Allianz Field (7:30p CT)

    REF: Rubiel Vazquez
    AR1: Jeremy Kieso
    AR2: Nick Balcer
    4TH: Ismir Pekmic
    VAR: Jorge Gonzalez
    AVAR: Tom Supple


    Colorado Rapids vs Orlando City SC
    DICK'S Sporting Goods Park (7:30p MT)

    REF: Ramy Touchan - 1st of season
    AR1: Andrew Bigelow
    AR2: Eduardo Jeff
    4TH: Elton Garcia
    VAR: Sorin Stoica
    AVAR: Jonathan Johnson


    Real Salt Lake vs D.C. United
    [Fascist Slogan] Field (7:30p MT)

    REF: Jon Freemon
    AR1: Adam Garner
    AR2: Ben Pilgrim
    4TH: Gerald Flores
    VAR: Fotis Bazakos
    AVAR: Craig Lowry
     
  5. sydneyoperahouse

    sydneyoperahouse New Member

    May 19, 2025
    Thought Dujic was pretty decent tonight in New England v. Cincinnati, although Yedlin got away with a lot even though the first yellows were coming pretty fast. Dujic covers the field well and never seems too far out of place.
     
  6. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I came here to comment on a play in this game.

    There was an offside call where the attacker was a yard offside, and both the 2LD and the attacker were right there in front of the AR. She didn’t pop the flag until the action played out, and the analyst called her out, and MLS in general, for being too cautious to call offside in real time.

    I’ve noticed that too, that OBVIOUS offsides aren’t flagged immediately a lot, and the potential for unnecessary injuries are heightened as a result.

    I wonder what you guys think about this.
     
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  7. sydneyoperahouse

    sydneyoperahouse New Member

    May 19, 2025
    I remember this play, and more particularly the analysts commentary. My initial thought was that yes, it was a pretty obvious offsides call. However, the risk/reward ratio is still heavily in favor of keeping the flag down so major action will be needed to change that (or maybe near-instantaneous offsides from computers will come in under 5 years?)
     
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  8. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Was the AR new to MLS? There is a clear pattern, everywhere this has been put in place, that ARs new to the VAR world are overly conservative in keeping their flags down, so they keep them down on plays that are not particularly close. They are much more worried about being wrong on flagging than looking silly for not flagging something obvious. In fairness, it’s a hard transition. We are asking people who have been focussed on making a binary decision instantaneously(though perhaps waiting to flag for actual involvement) to suddenly make a second decision when they find OS to ask “how close was it and could I be wrong”—that’s a tough judgment to make immediately on top of the binary judgment.
     
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  9. sydneyoperahouse

    sydneyoperahouse New Member

    May 19, 2025
    71st MLS game *shrug*
     
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  10. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Well, so much for that possibility . , .
     
  11. SoccerMan94043

    SoccerMan94043 Member+

    May 29, 2003
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So, I think Rivas would want this back and that he mostly got fooled by Chara on this. But...

    1) I didn't know we were reviewing 2CTs. Are first yellows up for review, too? I presume not. But, for obvious reasons, I don't like this.

    2) If the card is getting wiped out, is it because Chara simulated? Because, if so, he needs a fine now, too, right? The problem is the appeal panel and the DisCo are two different bodies, so you end up with situation where one body can imply Chara simulated to overturn the card, but another body doesn't have to punish him for it. And the referee is the only one left looking bad.

    3) If this is not simulation and it's deemed a good foul call, are we really at the point where an appeals board is deciding careless v reckless and just totally second-guessing the referee on that subjective determination? Because, if so, yikes. I suppose the body already relitigates reckless v excessive force, but moving down a level feels like a big step.
     
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  13. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Greater Pittsburgh
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can answer this!

    When a player receives two yellows cards and is sent off in a match, a team may always appeal the second yellow, regardless of the particular offense. They may also appeal the first yellow if and only if it was given for Unsporting Behavior, and then the IRP has to find that the opponent attempted to deceive the referee.

    Furthermore, a team may appeal any yellow card that triggers a suspension due to accumulation when the caution is a consequence of clear simulation or embellishment by an opponent.

    The key take away is that yellow cards can be appealed once there is a suspension involved, within certain parameters.
     
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  14. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Greater Pittsburgh
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As for point #2, if I hadn't gone to look at the latest report on the MLS site, I would have assumed a fine for simulation from the DisCo was the evidence presented for the appeal. Now I see there wasn't one levied. Seems strange.

    Harkes did get dinged for failure to leave the find in a timely manner, though, because of course.
     
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  15. Midwest Ref

    Midwest Ref Member

    Jul 25, 2002
    DISCO and Appeals body are separate groups. Simulation for Chara was not on the agenda. Regardless of the accuracy of the decision, Harkes did take too long to leave the field, hence the fine.
     
  16. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    this continues to seem to me to be a totally idiotic way to tin the railroad. Why would any league want two separate bodies making judgments post game rather than a single body that could provide consistency in the two directions?
     
  17. Midwest Ref

    Midwest Ref Member

    Jul 25, 2002
    The DISCO is something that is negotiated with the player's union and one of the reps is appointed by the MLSPA. The appeals body is separate and in theory not a part of the league. It has one rep from PRO, one from US Soccer, and one from the Canadian Soccer Association.
     
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  18. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Right, but also PRO's collective bargarning agreement as well. They don't want league randos overturnign red cards, so they have to be invovled. In therory no card can be overturned w/o the approval of PRO, or at least PRO's rep (who is assumed to be representing PRO's interests, but there have been ocassions where they maybe caved to the pressure and reversed something PRO was on the record as saying was correctly called.

    As i understand it, the main piont of the commitee is to make sure players aren't wrongly suspended from games. In fact, wrongly might be too strong even. "Softly" suspended might be bette. If you approach this from a referee perspective, you rightly see it as "relitigages reckless v. excessive force" or "careless v. reckless." But if you approach it from the owner's perspective it is more simple: "does this player really need to miss the next game for that?"
     
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  19. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Is that true? I thought they cold be outvoted 2-1?
     
  20. Midwest Ref

    Midwest Ref Member

    Jul 25, 2002
    All IRP decisions to uphold an appeal must be unanimous. Additionally, all decisions to classify an appeal as frivolous must be unanimous.
     
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