2025 MLS Match Day 13 & 14 Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by ManiacalClown, May 14, 2025.

  1. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Greater Pittsburgh
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Combining midweek and weekend matches into one thread. An experiment if you will.

    05/14/2025

    D.C. United vs New York City
    Audi Field (7:30PM ET)
    Ref: Armando Villarreal
    AR1: Corey Parker
    AR2: Ben Pilgrim
    4th: Guido Gonzales Jr
    VAR: Timothy Ford
    AVAR: Craig Lowry

    CF Montréal vs Columbus Crew
    Stade Saputo (7:30PM ET)
    Ref: Allen Chapman
    AR1: Stefan Tanaka-Freundt
    AR2: Walt Heatherly
    4th: Scott Bowman
    VAR: David Barrie
    AVAR: Mike Kampmeinert

    Orlando City vs Charlotte FC
    Inter&Co Stadium (7:30PM ET)
    Ref: Sergii Boiko
    AR1: Jose Da Silva
    AR2: Oscar Mitchell-Carvalho
    4th: Tori Penso
    VAR: Younes Marrakchi
    AVAR: Fabio Tovar

    Philadelphia Union vs LA Galaxy
    Subaru Park (7:30PM ET)
    Ref: Fotis Bazakos
    AR1: Adam Wienckowski
    AR2: Diego Blas
    4th: Sergii Demianchuk
    VAR: Daniel Radford
    AVAR: TJ Zablocki

    Toronto vs FC Cincinnati
    BMO Field (7:30PM ET)
    Ref: Jair Marrufo
    AR1: Corey Rockwell
    AR2: Adam Garner
    4th: Renzo Villanueva
    VAR: Chris Penso
    AVAR: Christian Clerc

    Houston Dynamo vs Minnesota United
    Shell Energy Stadium (8:30PM ET)
    Ref: Jon Freemon
    AR1: Ryan Graves
    AR2: Tyler Wyrostek
    4th: Alexis Da Silva
    VAR: Michael Radchuk
    AVAR: Tom Felice

    Nashville vs New York Red Bulls
    GEODIS Park (8:30PM ET)
    Ref: Marcos DeOliveira
    AR1: Chris Elliott
    AR2: Matthew Rodman
    4th: Filip Dujic
    VAR: Jose Carlos Rivero - 200th VAR
    AVAR: Rhett Hammil

    St Louis CITY vs Sporting Kansas City
    Energizer Park (8:45PM ET)
    Ref: Lukasz Szpala
    AR1: Lyes Arfa
    AR2: Mike Nickerson
    4th: Rubiel Vazquez
    VAR: Edvin Jurisevic
    AVAR: Joshua Patlak

    Austin FC vs Atlanta United
    Q2 Stadium (9PM ET)
    Ref: Malik Badawi
    AR1: Jeffrey Greeson
    AR2: Nick Balcer
    4th: Rosendo Mendoza
    VAR: Sorin Stoica
    AVAR: Jonathan Johnson

    Real Salt Lake vs Portland Timbers
    America First Field (9:30PM ET)
    Ref: Drew Fischer
    AR1: Kathryn Nesbitt
    AR2: Ricardo Ocampo
    4th: Brad Jensen
    VAR: Shawn Tehini
    AVAR: Tom Supple

    Los Angeles FC vs Seattle Sounders
    BMO Stadium (10:30PM ET)
    Ref: Pierre-Luc Lauziere
    AR1: Jason White
    AR2: Meghan Mullen
    4th: Brandon Stevis
    VAR: David Barrie
    AVAR: Mike Kampmeinert

    San Diego vs Colorado Rapids
    Snapdragon Stadium (10:30PM ET)
    Ref: Lorenzo Hernandez
    AR1: Felisha Mariscal
    AR2: Stephen McGonagle
    4th: Ricardo Fierro
    VAR: Timothy Ford
    AVAR: Craig Lowry

    San Jose Earthquakes vs Inter Miami
    PayPal Park (10:30PM ET)
    Ref: Joe Dickerson
    AR1: Jeremy Hanson
    AR2: Kali Smith
    4th: Victor Rivas
    VAR: Chris Penso
    AVAR: TJ Zablocki
     
  2. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Greater Pittsburgh
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bazakos has come off in Philly in the 79th minute. Demianchuk with the whistle for the remainder.
     
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  3. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have a general question about refs and thought this would be a good place to ask.

    MLS has a number of women who are ARs, VAR, and centers.

    How does it work with NWSL? Are the women who call MLS games better refs, or just faster and therefore able to keep up with the men’s game? Is there tension between the two leagues? What about NWSL and USL?

    thanks in advance
     
  4. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To be an on-field official in a men's professional competition, female referees must be able to pass the requisite male FIFA fitness test. So that's the baseline threshold and standard. The female referees in MLS (and USL, for that matter) can pass a fitness standard that other female referees cannot (or opt not to attempt). And, yes, for fourth officials this means the official must pass the referee (not AR) standard.

    Beyond that, I imagine everything is in the eye of the beholder. I suppose one can be a "better" referee than someone else without having higher fitness; but from what I know and see, I think your best female referees are in MLS (notwithstanding my long-held view that refereeing professional men and professional women can almost be like refereeing different sports and a lot of elite male referees would be completely at sea if they were dropped into NWSL). Same goes for "tension" between or among leagues. Some of the female referees in MLS still dabble in NWSL just like some male referees do both NWSL and USL. Whether allocation of personnel is smooth or exactly what everyone wants probably depends on who you ask.

    VARs are different as there are no fitness standards. But the VAR program in MLS is miles ahead of NWSL because more attention, resources and time has been put into MLS. At the moment, it does seem like good VARs in NWSL can graduate to MLS. And NWSL is a place where aspiring MLS VARs (meaning, on-field officials in MLS who lack VAR experience) can go first. So, on the whole, the VAR program in NWSL does have the appearance of a minor or second-tier league for the officials in question.
     
  5. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  6. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    I think Dickerson handled that as well as you could and glad he gave the card for dissent.

    It would have been really gutsy if he did send him off. Would have liked to seen it, but that's not really realistic and I also think Messi just barely and I mean barely did enough to not get sent off. It was right on the line.
     
  7. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    If there was one PRO ref who you would tell me would get into a potential confrontational shouting match with Messi, it was always going to be Dickerson
     
    Twotone Jones repped this.
  8. Dayton Ref

    Dayton Ref Member+

    May 3, 2012
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Not Chris Penso?
     
    frankieboylampard repped this.
  9. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    Point of order though, this was not, by any stretch, a “shouting match.”
     
    jarbitro repped this.
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is it worth asking what Messi was upset about? Seems a bit strange that, whatever it was, he seemed to have no support in his protests from his teammates. Commentators were focused on how no one was there to help pull him away but I'm a bit more interested in why he was a lone wolf given he does not lack for teammates who seem to revel in challenging referees.
     
  11. the_phoenix612

    Manchester United
    United States
    Sep 13, 2022
    Houston, TX
    He was VAR for this match lol
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm seeing a suggestion on the socials (God bless the algorithms, appparently) that it was specifically a potential attacking free kick in the penalty arc when he went down and Dickerson gave nothing. If that's it... A) Dickerson was totally right, the tackle wasn't near the ball but also wasn't near Messi; Messi deliberately stuck his right leg out to initiate contact and B) wow.

    I tend or at least hope to think there's more contentious stuff. But if it's just that, then Dickerson has absolutely nothing to be concerned about.
     
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  13. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    People talk a lot about penso, I couldn’t tell you much about him. But I do know that Dickersons personality doesn’t surprise me at all getting in those situations. Not saying at all that he was at fault
     
  14. davidjd

    davidjd Member+

    Jun 30, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I read this elsewhere that it was a no-call in the last 2 minutes of the game so that play seems right.
     
  15. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Greater Pittsburgh
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    05/17/2025

    CF Montréal vs Toronto
    Stade Saputo (2:30PM ET)
    Ref: Filip Dujic
    AR1: Jose Da Silva
    AR2: Ryan Graves
    4th: Mario Al Ayass
    VAR: Kevin Stott
    AVAR: Fabio Tovar

    New York City vs New York Red Bulls
    Citi Field (4:30PM ET)
    Ref: Allen Chapman
    AR1: Cory Richardson
    AR2: Kevin Klinger
    4th: Matt Thompson
    VAR: Greg Dopka
    AVAR: John Krill

    Columbus Crew vs FC Cincinnati
    Lower.com Field (7:15PM ET)
    Ref: Rubiel Vazquez
    AR1: Cameron Blanchard
    AR2: Ian McKay
    4th: Benjamin Meyer
    VAR: Geoff Gamble
    AVAR: Jeff Muschik

    Atlanta United vs Philadelphia Union
    Mercedes-Benz Stadium (7:30PM ET)
    Ref: Chris Penso
    AR1: Kali Smith
    AR2: Brian Marshall - 1st AR
    4th: Matthew Corrigan
    VAR: Younes Marrakchi
    AVAR: Joshua Patlak

    Charlotte vs Chicago Fire
    Bank of America Stadium (7:30PM ET)
    Ref: Ismir Pekmic
    AR1: Justin Howard
    AR2: Matthew Nelson
    4th: Alyssa Nichols
    VAR: Kevin Terry Jr
    AVAR: Mike Kampmeinert

    New England Revolution vs San Jose Earthquakes
    Gillette Stadium (7:30PM ET)
    Ref: Ricardo Montero Araya
    AR1: Lyes Arfa
    AR2: Gianni Facchini
    4th: Atahan Yaya
    VAR: Jorge Gonzalez
    AVAR: John Krill

    Austin FC vs Vancouver Whitecaps
    Q2 Stadium (8:30PM ET)
    Ref: Alexis Da Silva
    AR1: Jason White
    AR2: Eduardo Jeff
    4th: Lorenzo Hernandez
    VAR: Greg Dopka
    AVAR: Brian Dunn

    FC Dallas vs Houston Dynamo
    Toyota Stadium (8:30PM ET)
    Ref: Tori Penso
    AR1: Kathryn Nesbitt
    AR2: Brooke Mayo
    4th: Sergii Boiko
    VAR: Edvin Jurisevic
    AVAR: Robert Schaap

    Minnesota United vs St Louis CITY
    Allianz Field (8:30PM ET)
    Ref: Ricardo Fierro
    AR1: Gerard-Kader Lebuis
    AR2: Rhett Hammil
    4th: Luis Diego Arroyo
    VAR: Sorin Stoica
    AVAR: Craig Lowry

    Nashville vs D.C. United
    GEODIS Park (8:30PM ET)
    Ref: Fotis Bazakos
    AR1: Corey Rockwell
    AR2: Stefan Tanaka-Freundt
    4th: Sergii Demianchuk
    VAR: Kevin Stott
    AVAR: Elijio Arreguin - 1st AVAR

    Colorado Rapids vs Real Salt Lake
    Dick’s Sporting Goods Park (9:30PM ET)
    Ref: Pierre-Luc Lauziere
    AR1: Chris Wattam
    AR2: Kevin Lock
    4th: Jair Marrufo
    VAR: Carol Anne Chenard
    AVAR: Fabio Tovar

    Portland Timbers vs Seattle Sounders
    Providence Park (9:30PM ET)
    Ref: Rosendo Mendoza
    AR1: Corey Parker
    AR2: Kyle Atkins
    4th: Malik Badawi
    VAR: Armando Villarreal
    AVAR: Jonathan Johnson

    San Diego vs Sporting Kansas City
    Snapdragon Stadium (9:30PM ET)
    Ref: Victor Rivas
    AR1: Andrew Bigelow
    AR2: Jeffrey Swartzel
    4th: Joe Dickerson
    VAR: Geoff Gamble
    AVAR: Mike Kampmeinert - 200th AVAR

    05/18/2025

    Inter Miami vs Orlando City
    Chase Stadium (7PM ET)
    Ref: Guido Gonzales Jr
    AR1: Jeremy Kieso
    AR2: Chris Elliott
    4th: Marcos DeOliveira
    VAR: Jose Carlos Rivero
    AVAR: Tom Supple

    LA Galaxy vs Los Angeles FC
    Dignity Health Sports Park (9PM ET)
    Ref: Drew Fischer
    AR1: Logan Brown
    AR2: Jeremy Hanson
    4th: Lukasz Szpala
    VAR: Armando Villarreal
    AVAR: Craig Lowry - 200th AVAR
     
  16. weka

    weka Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    My man Brian getting his debut.

    Sorry for having to decline a UPSL whistle a few hours ago because I forgot to update my schedule. :)
     
  17. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #17 jarbitro, May 16, 2025
    Last edited: May 16, 2025
    I like that Dickerson didn't re-engage the conversation when Messi returned. It would have been tempting to "patch things up" with a league star, and just explain why you called what you did. But, apparently, that was forfietied after the yellow, so telling Messi "walk away now or I will send you off" is about as clear as you an be... and it looks like Messi complied (although you are right, just barely). But still. A send off would have been harsh...

    Also I seem to remember some kind of league directive (probalby pre-Messi) that empowers the league to levy fines against players who disssent to the referee if he is in his "safe zone" at the circle/halfway line, which it apprears that Dickerson is. So the fact that Messi got carded probably opens himself up to such a fine if the league cares and if that directive is still in place.
     
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  18. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Greater Pittsburgh
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fotis Bazakos (injury, presumably) has been replaced as the referee on NSH/DC with Sergii Demianchuk. Nabil Bensalah in at 4th Official.
     
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  19. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    I just like that he stood up for himself and stood his ground and he put the ball in Messi's court and forced Messi to tie his own hands.

    How many times we see a player confront an official post match and the referee just stands there and does nothing and doesn't even stand up for himself via either giving a card or threatening the player with a send-off?

    Too many times referees just stand there while players abuse and dissent towards them and they do nothing.

    Several years ago there was a great clip of Baldomero Toledo and Michael Bradley post match.

    They seemed to be having a friendly conversation (Toledo was smiling) and, then, Bradley must have said something that immediately set Toled off and Toledo immediately brandished the yellow card.

    Bradley started to continue and Toledo then reached for his red card basically saying "I won't hesitate to produce a red here" and Bradley walked away.
     
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  20. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Dickerson should have done this classic, he would have been famous worldwide

    [​IMG]
     
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  21. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m surprised there’s so much support for Dickerson…in the video, he gave Messi the yellow as Messi was walking away. Now, maybe the last thing Messi shouted before that was one of those magic words you just can’t say, in which case, I take it back.

    But unless Messi said something really bad, Dickerson IMO reignited the situation with that yellow.
     
  22. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I trust Dickerson here. I don’t think he pulls a card there unless the totality of it all requires one, like you suggest. And if anything, I bet he’s conditioned to under punish based on who it is. I can say pretty confidently that Joe Dickerson is not an idiot and he would realize the can of worms he was opening by carding Messi post-game.

    But also, Messi steps at least eight yards in the other direction after the card is shown and about 10 seconds pass before he seems to consciously decide to turn around and re-approach Dickerson. So regardless of the veracity of the card, I find it hard to say Dickerson reignited things. This wasn’t a crime of passion by Messi. He chose to take a second run at him when it seemed to be very much over.
     
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  23. Thegreatwar

    Thegreatwar Member

    Seacoast United
    May 28, 2015
    New Hampshire
    Which ref was that?
     
  24. Twotone Jones

    Twotone Jones Member

    United States
    Apr 12, 2023
    And, of all people, Bruce Arena is the one playing peachmaker here. As much respect as he has in the game from his coaching resume', he's not the most referee-friendly coach out there. We see him flapping his arms at the refs and throwing them out in disgust more often than we see any other gesture from him. But he's the one in between Messi and Dickerson in the video, pulling Messi away in an "the leagues need you on tv in the next game" kinda way.
     
    SouthRef repped this.
  25. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    That’s pretty much what I think the video looks like. It looks like Dickerson was engaging willingly with Messi, even waving him to come closer at one point, and then right before Messi turns to walk away the expression on Dickerson’s face changes to “cmon, seriously?” and he takes a moment to consider before pulling out the yellow card. So my read on that was that Dickerson felt like it was some language where he had no choice but to show (at least) a yellow card.
     

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