2025 Lamar Hunt U.S. Open Cup [R]

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by Goodsport, Jan 28, 2025.

  1. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Beat Precourt!
     
    don gagliardi repped this.
  2. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    Tues / Wed games also doesn’t help attendance.
     
    markmcf8 repped this.
  3. Goodsport

    Goodsport Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 18, 1999
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  4. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well the games are always going to be midweek because that's how it works everywhere and always will. Even Champions Cup games are midweek until the final.

    But are fans not going because the games are midweek, or because MLS doesn't properly record the stats?
     
  5. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    Um, soccer in the US is not quite at the level of maturity and popularity as it is in Europe. I’m seeing a lot of half empty stadiums even on weekend games. Now add in “tournament we’re not gonna market, we’ve pulled half the teams out, and we tried to bail on altogether, and what you should *really* care about is Leagues Cup!” and it just adds to the apathy. The bogus stats page is not the problem but an unambiguous indicator of how much they care.
     
    markmcf8 repped this.
  6. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Interestingly, because the Quakes had sufficient advance notice of the game, they custom-merchandised the Sacramento Open Cup match in exactly the same way they did the Messi game -- scarf and pin. But they did not market the availability of the Sacramento pins, and I noticed that some Sacramento pins were still available for purchase at the Messi game.

    Marketing matters.
     
    markmcf8 repped this.
  7. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #282 xbhaskarx, May 22, 2025
    Last edited: May 22, 2025
    I think there's some confusion... US Open Cup is not MLS's tournament, it's US Soccer's tournament. The MLS regular season playoffs etc are MLS. Leagues Cup is MLS and Liga MX. Champions Cup is Concacaf.

    Obviously MLS and their teams post on social media about whatever competitions those MLS teams happen to be in, but that doesn't mean it's their tournament. How much individual teams care on any level from marketing to fielding their best players is up to them, as it should be.

    Why doesn't "NISA" or USL League One or Concacaf or anyone else do a better job marketing US Open Cup... what?

    The official website... note the host because US Soccer won't even pay for a separate domain name:
    ussoccer.com/us-open-cup

    AppleTV does have the broadcast rights starting this next round... also the first round with only MLS teams left (not that they knew that a year ago).

    In 2024, Apple TV+, via MLS Season Pass, announced an agreement to air the quarterfinals, semifinals and final of the Cup.​
     
    markmcf8 repped this.
  8. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I’m not confused.
     
    mjlee22 repped this.
  9. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's 2025 now and it's on Paramount+.
     
    JazzyJ and xbhaskarx repped this.
  10. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Apparently no one updated Wikipedia...
     
  11. Goodsport

    Goodsport Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 18, 1999
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    [​IMG]
    Sep 27, 2023; Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA; Houston Dynamo midfielder Hector Herrera (16) celebrates with teammates after winning the Lamar Hunt U.S. Open Cup Final against Inter Miami CF at DRV PNK Stadium. (Mandatory Credit: Sam Navarro-Imagn Images | Sam Navarro-Imagn Images)



    GO SAN JOSE EARTHQUAKES!!! :cool:


    -G
     
  12. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    Me either. The point is that if the teams and the league marketed the tournament more, maybe more people would care. Thus, “chicken or the egg”.
     
    markmcf8 and don gagliardi repped this.
  13. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So then why doesn't USL League One do more to market US Open Cup?
    How about NISA, if it still exists?
     
  14. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Marketing costs money.
     
    JazzyJ repped this.
  15. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    Not relevant to my point, which is that MLS fans might care about US Open Cup more if MLS wasn’t trying to shun it.
     
    markmcf8 repped this.
  16. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Right, that's why MLS doesn't waste a bunch of money marketing something they don't own.
    League's Cup they will market, because they own it. See my comment about "confusion" above.

    Again, the recent data points seem to be that MLS is shunning USOC less, and yet interest is not up, and if anything may be down even more, because the correlation between the two is inverted:

    Until the AppleTV deal MLS certainly didn't "shun" US Open Cup, they fully participated every year until like three years ago. Was it a hugely popular tournament until just a few years ago?
     
  17. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #292 xbhaskarx, May 22, 2025
    Last edited: May 22, 2025
    US Open Cup is boring when MLS dominates (like this year) and only interesting when minnows beat their teams (eg Sac Republic run to the finals last year), which makes MLS look bad. US Open Cup needs as many "cupsets" as possible to thrive which is fine. People don't even give MLS teams excuses for losing with reserve players, "tough luck you should have started your A team"... or credit when they win with their reserve players (as they did, see below) "well you're big MLS teams of course you should win".... What incentive does MLS have to promote such a product when they don't even own it and won't benefit from it? Are they complete idiots? Is that how they turned their league from almost dead to one of the biggest in world soccer in two decades?

    [​IMG]
     
  18. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    #293 don gagliardi, May 22, 2025
    Last edited: May 22, 2025
    Effective marketing requires a ramp-up period, and there is an incentive for MLS clubs hosting the games to fill their stadia.

    The same attendance issues plaguing the Open Cup games also impact MLS playoffs, as I've already mentioned. MLS owns its playoff games.

    Likewise, the Leagues Cup games generally suffered in relative attendance in 2024, during the second season, the Chivas / Quakes Levi's game being a notable exception. The difference there was that there is an abundance of expatriate Chivas fans in the Bay Area -- who were there to see their team, and not for the Mickey Mouse "Leagues Cup" tournament. Necaxa did not have nearly the same drawing power -- even though it was a more meaningful knock-out Leagues Cup match.
     
    JazzyJ repped this.
  19. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Quakes are a minnow, so I'm not bored. :)

    But agreed, more lower level teams playing David to the MLS goliath, would build interest nationally in the current environment.
     
  20. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    How is trying to bail on the tournament altogether and now only having about half the first teams participate “shunning USOC less”?
     
  21. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's a single elimination tournament so the average participating MLS team is going to play what, like 3-4 USOC games? Even a big attendance increase of 10k from say 5k to 15k for 1.5 to 2 games hosted is almost nothing for MLS teams in terms of extra revenue generated. And attendance will increase naturally for the final few rounds without pumping money into marketing so really it's more like 0 to 1.5 games hosted on average where that would apply.
     
  22. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because before that the number of MLS teams involved was even lower? There are more MLS teams participating in USOC now than over the last two years.
     
  23. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes of course I'm happy the Quakes are advancing... I've been saying for a decade it's the easiest path to Champions League.

    But when we're neutral third parties pretty much everyone would prefer to see Union Omaha or whoever beating St Louis.... that's not just in the USOC that's everywhere in similar tournaments, people love a cupset and a deep Cinderella run.
     
  24. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    From a short-term perspective that may be true, but from a long-range perspective, marketing the existence of a more-than-century-old tournament is good for American engagement with soccer, and by extension its top professional league, MLS.

    Why is the analogous FA Cup successful, if not for the history? Even we American soccer fans are interested.

    The Quakes' distilled product is civic pride, and if they promoted the San Jose Oaks 1992 Open Cup title, and the SF teams that won the cup, they would draw more interest from the general population whose interest is less about the soccer, per se, than a fun night out celebrating their community. The Open Cup is a hallowed "event" and if marketed as such would burnish MLS in reflected glory. It won't happen overnight, but there is a return on investment in celebrating real history.
     
    Boysinblue, JazzyJ and xbhaskarx repped this.
  25. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    IIRC correctly, 2023 was 26 MLS teams, though some may have sent their Next/Pro teams. I don't remember. The final was Inter Miami - Houston. I don't think we'll see Inter Miami play USOC in the Messi era again, which is another indicator of how MLS has de-prioritized it. In Dec 2023 MLS announced that they're exiting USOC altogether. US Soccer said no you're not, so the compromise for 2024 was 8 teams. Now it's 16. But the point is, the league is trying to get the hell out and has de-prioritized it relative to previous years, 2024 vs. 2025 notwithstanding. I'm talking about a timeframe larger than 1 year.
     

Share This Page