2025-26 England Referee Thread [EPL/EFL/Cups+][Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by balu, Aug 2, 2025.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Penalty given live. DOGSO conditions clear as day but Kavanagh gives no card because…?

    I don’t get it. You have to give the yellow there and then allow the upgrade if it’s not an attempt to play the ball. If this *was* an attempt to play the ball, Lacroix would have gotten away with no card. Just so poor live. Officiating is getting worse. Either Kavanagh can’t recognize DOGSO or he just chooses not to give it.
     
  2. Law6

    Law6 Member

    Nov 17, 2023
    For DOGSO, it was pretty tight whether the keeper would get the ball. Something I would probably miss or deem doubtful live.
     
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I simply do not believe this is true at all.
     
  4. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member+

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I think the only reason the GK could come up to get the ball was because of the hold to the attacker.
     
  5. Law6

    Law6 Member

    Nov 17, 2023
    My bar for DOGSO is really high, probably higher than what's correct. Also DOGSO is an incredibly difficult call to get right live most of the time. Kavanagh in this game couldn't do it. You have to be focused on the initial foul and in this case he needed input from the AR whether the foul was inside the area. To then also be paying attention to where the keeper is is probably impossible unless there is a wide margin of error.

     
  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    None of that is impossible. I'm sorry, this was an easy decision.

    The ball is like 2 yards from him when he's fouled and the keeper is maybe 12-14 yards away? It's not even close.
     
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  7. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member+

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I think my issues with the call are 1) it took him forever to even make a call and 2) he didn’t even get to a YC on his own.

    Was this a case of typical laizez faire refereeing waiting for VAR to help him make the right call or did he genuinely miss this altogether?
     
  8. Law6

    Law6 Member

    Nov 17, 2023
    Given that the point came several seconds after the whistle, he needed help whether it was inside the area. Given that the majority of the hold was outside the area and that particular angle is basically the AR's job, this seems reasonable.
     
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  9. the_phoenix612

    Manchester United
    United States
    Sep 13, 2022
    Houston, TX
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And the argument for why that's not a deliberate handball is... because he only did it because he was committing a different deliberate foul that we don't like to call?

    It's all so stupid.

    Also, the 2CT in this match was a bit questionable itself. Don't get me wrong, I want it given. But there was a clear advantage from the foul as the felled attacker literally got right back up and kept going to goal. Per our current SPA instructions, you're supposed to play advantage there and eat the card. Was the foul itself reckless? Well, the nature of it was, which is why I personally like the yellow card (and red). But there was no actual reckless contact and we know, at this level, we're mostly in a results-based business at this point. Player gets right back up and shows no ill-effects of the challenge, which had minimal contact... that's a tough reckless standard compared to what you normally see in the EPL.

    Prior to the Law changes, this is an easy 2CT. It still looks like a 2CT. But based on how reckless is adjudicated and how SPA is supposed to be called, I'm not totally sold on it being the technically correct decision.
     
  11. the_phoenix612

    Manchester United
    United States
    Sep 13, 2022
    Houston, TX
    His arm is in a justifiable grappling position, obviously.....

    It was also the third time in the span of about 15 minutes that the referee blew for a foul against Chelsea when Arsenal had an attack on (once for GK interference on distribution, once to give a caution for an off-the-ball pull down while the Arsenal GK was trying to spring a break, and once here).
     
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  12. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member+

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #737 mathguy ref, Mar 1, 2026
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2026
    Watching this live I actually loved the stoppage for card and 2CT. I has a couple of thoughts initially (and I could be totally wrong but it sounded good in my head at the time).

    First, it looked like he tried for a scissor tackle and missed. So it had a whiff of UB while also being SPA. Yes he missed but it wasn’t for lack of trying.

    Second, I was thinking that since Neto was now getting sent off for 2CT that we really don’t want him getting up and committing another foul on an advantage.

    Lastly, by stopping the advantage you actually give Arsenal a larger advantage by having them playing up a man the remainder of the match. That of course assumes England could actually process that idea that fast. That may be giving him too much credit and be totally not founded in Law or instruction. But it sounded good at the time.

    ETA it may be apples and oranges but one of the things that bothered me about Pawson playing advantage on that play with Haaland a couple of weeks ago was that it opened the door for the player committing a RC offense to stay active in the play. And of course that came into fruition.
     
  13. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    England with another very strange day giving cards. So in one game, a clear DOGSO RC PK he’s not even gonna give a card, which seems to be the norm with England ignoring cards needed on PKs. Then in another, what should be advantage is called back to give a 2CT. This is why England is so frustrating
     
  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So about the 2CT for simulation to Newcastle…

    Yes, he goes down awkwardly without contact. But he doesn’t appeal for a penalty. Whether he was simulating and then immediately thought better of it or he awkwardly stepped and fell down is an open question. And Bankes had nothing initially. He gave a goal kick! To get that to a dubious send off is just crazy to me. But yet again so very England. Here’s a place where a referee can choose not to insert himself and very easily and justifiably sell a no card decision. He could do exactly what the overall English referee philosophy calls for. But because it’s a technical call and not a subjective physical decision, he convinces himself his hands are tied. It’s just bad refereeing. Who wants this?
     
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  15. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    And Webb will go on TV and gaslight all of us into saying "the referee had no choice there."
     
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  16. Law6

    Law6 Member

    Nov 17, 2023
    1:05



    Watched this one live, was immediately thinking orange. Which for practical purposes means yellow unless you have a very clean look at it. Peter Banks goes yellow initially after a think, which is almost certainly what I would have done. Then the video reveals that the contact was above the knee, so off he goes. It emphasizes how tight these decisions are, if it had been 6 inches lower I'd probably favor yellow.
     
  17. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    The Arsenal FC
    Jun 16, 1999
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In real time, I thought yellow was correct. In slo-mo.....eeehhhh, yeah, orangey---red probably isn't wrong.
     
  18. chwmy

    chwmy Member+

    Feb 27, 2010
    I dunno… i know he actually can’t see the point of contact but he can certainly see that the defender has left his feet and lunging at high speed, with the leg straight and well off the ground. I’d like to think I’d go red in real time in the games that i do. I think the ref goes yellow knowing var will look at it: nothing wrong with that, why not use all the tools available.
     
  19. Tigerpunk

    Tigerpunk Member+

    Jun 17, 2004
    I don't know what is a penalty anymore.

     
  20. Barciur

    Barciur Member+

    Apr 25, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland


    Heh
     
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  21. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd


    Just absurd all around.

    Get the ******** out of there or tell them to go that do shit somewhere else.
     
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  22. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh wow. I just saw this and my instinct was the photo was AI, though I was then also shocked by the idea NBC would do that without acknowledging. So I was perplexed but definitely leaned "some intern got over his skis" instead of "this is real and really dumb." Incredible.

     
  23. Tigerpunk

    Tigerpunk Member+

    Jun 17, 2004
  24. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How does a referee at this level have absolutely no idea whatsoever he already booked a player in this spot?



    I went and looked. The first card at 26' was clear SPA, no debate about who got it (no one else in the same zip code). And the referee wrote immediately after showing it.
     
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  25. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_...h-huddle-referee-stamford-bridge-paul-tierney

    The whole story is just dumb all around.

    What Chelsea is doing is just dumb and is going to lead to a mass confrontation.

    But what I can't comprehend is why Tierney just stood there and made no effort to get out of there. It goes against basic human instinct. It's incomprehensible. Everyone that has been in a subway and squeezed together will make an effort to get out of a mass of humanity if there is room to go.

    I would be floored if I was Webb.

    Is this some stupid English tradition of the referee has to be near the center spot before kick-off?

    I'm just aghast. Now Webb has to waste his time this week discussing this and probably write a memo to the referees what to do with this.
     

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