2024 MLS Week 3 Referee Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by SouthRef, Mar 2, 2024.

  1. Deacon_

    Deacon_ New Member

    Chelsea/Portland Timbers
    United States
    Jan 3, 2024
    Very disappointed with the YC at ‘6 for Chara. He clearly wins the ball. (I’m also a diehard Portland fan)
     
  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Your partisanship aside, I think you're underselling it.

    That's a clean tackle. And he's got SPA yellow. Against Chara. In the 6th minute. That is a really bad start.

    Did you catch Klich sort of smile and laugh alongside him? That's the sort of thing I was talking about last weekend. His opponent knows it's not a foul.
     
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  3. Deacon_

    Deacon_ New Member

    Chelsea/Portland Timbers
    United States
    Jan 3, 2024
    Yeah, totally agreed. And if you know Chara’s style of play, it will certainly affect him (and the Timbers) for the rest of the game.
     
  4. SouthRef

    SouthRef Member+

    Arsenal
    Jun 10, 2006
    USA
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Thinking about analogous situations that I can remember...

    There was a corner kick incorrectly awarded to NYCFC in 2022 (have to look up the match) that lead to a game tying goal.

    I can also remember the handball on the goal line in last years playoffs where SKC should have had a penalty but VAR got lost in the weeds and didn't do anything and so SKC went out.


    So, on one hand these bad decisions aren't completely unprecedented in either their scale or their impact.

    on the other hand, mistakes happen at every level and they've managed to hit two years worth of bad decisions in two weeks.
     
  5. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    74’ of Colorado game is a nasty challenge. Madness that he escapes without a yellow.
     
  6. TheRealBilbo

    TheRealBilbo Member+

    Apr 5, 2016
    It’s going to be player frustration boiling over. Pro players seem willing to put up with poor refereeing to a point. They are probably also being told to go easy on the refs.

    that won’t last forever.
     
  7. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Someone in stadium said he got one. Confirming....

    EDIT: It's on the box score so yes.
     
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  8. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    Gotcha. Broadcast didn’t seem to catch it.
     
  9. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Need to take another look, but there's a decent argument Yapi was fortunate. It was, as you say, quite nasty.
     
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  10. GoDawgsGo

    GoDawgsGo Member+

    Nov 11, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ya it was low but the speed and force were so high that really should be red. That was bad. Being low I guess it didn’t meet clear and obvious.
     
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  11. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    COL v NSH - VAR review in the 89' only took 4 replays and 20 seconds.
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In the category of things that fans never notice...

    45' there's a collision with a DCU player and the Portland goalkeeper. Flag comes up and the referee immediately signals indirect for offside.

    The attacker was onside by at least two full yards. Like, it was never close.

    It was a foul coming out either way, so it doesn't matter. And maybe the decision was for a foul (after all, the referee then didn't maintain the IFK signal when it was taken). But in the moment, that was the call (AR flag in right hand straight up, referee hand straight up) so at best there were both mechanic and communications issues. At worst, you had an inexplicable offside decision at any level.
     
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  13. La Rikardo

    La Rikardo Moderator

    May 9, 2011
    nj
    may I suggest this should be a red card? Yapi kept the challenge low, but he was on a dead sprint and holy cow that ankle buckled. this garbage tackle is no less dangerous than an average SFP
    https://streamable.com/88pm6m
     
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  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I mean, this goes back to the debate we had at one of the last big tournaments (WWC?) around whether or not "but he was really just trying to score a goal" is--or should be--a valid excuse for downgrade.

    Nothing in the Laws, of course. But very obvious he went in with that sort of intensity because he's trying to score a goal. Just as the defender went in intensely because he was trying to stop a goal. Defender wins the race and the result is bad... now what? Particularly when it did seem at the last moment like the Colorado player realized he was late and tried ever so slightly to mitigate.

    I think no one expects red there, even if it's probably red by the book. That's just a tough spot for a referee to be in. I've got red at midfield for sure. But that only happens at midfield if the attacking player is trying to murder his opponent.
     
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  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you need to view this at multiple angles and at real speed to get an understanding of what happened, though.

    For anyone who only watches that, it's an obvious red. Like a no questions asked red.

    At speed and seeing the whole play develop, it's clear both players are in a dead (and desperate) sprint for a loose ball that's rolling to the goal. And, at that point, see my post above.

    Not saying it's not a red. Or shouldn't be, by the book. But with the context of what both players are trying to do, my history in the sport says no one actually expects red there.
     
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  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I get the CR is maybe looking directly through the body so he's guessing if he doesn't seem the handball cleanly.

    But look at AR2. Nothing. No help on something he is staring right at. That's an example of the difference in level/ability. That doesn't need to go to VAR with the right on-field teamwork.
     
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  17. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    My thoughts exactly, you took the words out of my mouth. Even still, I kind of expected it to get sent down is genuinely so forceful. I feel for the attacker because he kinda has to go for it. But I have red there.
     
  18. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    All the more impressive when you consider that the VAR (Gantar) only showed him the worst possible angle! Seriously it's from super far away and on the wrong side of the player so you can't even see the arm or the ball at the point of contact. I was pretty surprised by that.
     
  19. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've mostly made my arguments above, but I'd add this...

    Swinging the outcome of calamitous defending that nearly resulted in an open net goal all the way to an SFP red card on the attacking team simply because he was a tenth of a second late on a play that everyone would concede he "has to go for"... yeah, football doesn't expect it.

    I can't explain it much more than that. And I can't ground it well in the Laws. And there's obviously a point where this sort of reasoning gets trumped (like by a really bad injury). But here? I just don't think a professional level referee (or VAR) can make this a red unless they absolutely must.
     
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  20. La Rikardo

    La Rikardo Moderator

    May 9, 2011
    nj
    #145 La Rikardo, Mar 2, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2024
    sorry I can't get on board with the idea that players are allowed to plow through an opponent's ankle and not get sent off just because they were trying really hard to score a goal
     
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  21. jdmahoney

    jdmahoney Member

    Feb 28, 2017
    Plymouth, MN
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Interesting no penalty call in SEA-ATX just now. No replay shown on the broadcast, so hard to tell whether that was the right decision.
     
  22. jdmahoney

    jdmahoney Member

    Feb 28, 2017
    Plymouth, MN
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    And... now the cards are starting to fly.
     
  23. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    This game in Portland is really on the edge
     
  24. SouthRef

    SouthRef Member+

    Arsenal
    Jun 10, 2006
    USA
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Here's Vermes after the match. Not really the direction I expected him to go

     
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  25. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Welp.
     

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