2024 MLS Week 1 and 2 Referee Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by code1390, Feb 21, 2024.

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  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So did no one ask Vanney about this? Or did he side-step it?
     
  2. SouthRef

    SouthRef Member+

    Arsenal
    Jun 10, 2006
    USA
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    found one post game quote from him “really really soft”
     
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  3. SouthRef

    SouthRef Member+

    Arsenal
    Jun 10, 2006
    USA
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  4. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Personally would have liked to have seen it coupled with a notice from the DisCo for Busquets, but I think you might be getting into "we have to suspend him if we call it simulation" territory so who knows what sort of thinking/politics goes into that!
     
  5. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    I know times have completely changed, but I wanted to at least tell a story from a sports related lockout from 1987. Wow, it’s almost 37 yeas ago, but the NFL used replacement players in the league for a few weeks. One of the things that broke the lockout was the refusal by big time advertisers to advertise on NFL games. Basically, union solidarity. The big advertisers at the time were the car companies, breweries, tire manufacturers, and some big movie companies. All heavily reliant on union employees, who did not like their companies advertising in sports that were using replacement workers.

    Today, the media landscape has changed so much and the union presence is so much less.

    If I am the PSRA, it might still be worth at least a shot to go to the official MLS sponsors and make some noise. I don’t watch MLS so I don’t know how prominent official sponsors are (either in person or on Apple TV), but making them a little uncomfortable might nit be a bad idea.

    Commissioner Garber also has first hand knowledge of the 1987 debacle with replacement players as he was in the Marketing Department of the NFL back then.
     
  6. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    So now we are now saying that Chris Penso, Ismail Elfath, Armando Villarreal are as important to a league and sponsors as Lawrence Taylor, Joe Montana and Jerry Rice were in 1987?
     
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  7. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm a big proponent of highly-disruptive activities, but PSRA has been adamant throughout this whole process that they're not asking for solidarity strikes or things of that nature. And that assumes you could even get something going among the unionized workers of those various advertisers since, as you said, union solidarity isn't exactly at historical heights. The NFL *might* have the cultural footprint where their referees would still be able to move the needle in a situation like this, but MLS is certainly not the NFL.
     
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  8. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    Not at all. What I am saying is advertisers don’t like negativity. Lockouts are negative. Rock as many boats.

    BTW, since I was involved in 1987, the networks (also with powerful unions) had copious amounts of insurance, and actually made more money after advertisers bailed.
     
  9. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    all it takes is one chief marketing officer.
     
  10. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    They refused to advertise on NFL games not because of any union solidarity, but because of what they were paying for wasn't what they were getting. They were paying to advertise their products with the understanding that Jerry Rice and Lawrence Taylor would be on the games. Not some insurance salesman or roofer or plumber.

    If a great restaurant suddenly had a waiter/maitre d strike/lockout, but still had the same great food (ingredients) and same chef/cooks you would still go and pay what the restaurant charging.

    Because you go for the food, not the auxiliary/necessary service. No one watches the games for the referees. How hard is that to understand. The sky is not falling. The league will survive.

    Advertisers in 1987 were paying fillet mignon prices, but getting used steak that was half off from the local grocery store.

    Some of the self-aggrandizing of the referees here is remarkable (i.e. "this could hurt the 2026 World Cup's reputation and preparation"). When people look back on World Cups, they are gonna say "2026 was pretty good, but remember that referee lockout they had two years prior? It left a really bad taste in my mouth. it soured the event.

    I much prefer the winter World Cup 2022 in an Arab micro-state with questionable human rights behavior and stadiums built on slave labor. Or the 2018 World Cup, hosted by an autocratic kleptocracy with questionable rights for the LGBTQ community and that launched a brutal invasion four years after."

    They are important, but not THAT important that show can't go on without the regular officials.

    MLS existed and functioned seemingly fine for almost 16-17 years with haphazard, incompetent, and inconsistent officiating that we saw this past weekend.

    I think the league can go a couple of weeks with replacement level officials.
     
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  11. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Used steak?! That’s really gross. . .
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Slow news day, huh?
     
  13. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Crossing a picket line is a moral failure.
     
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  14. soccertim

    soccertim Member

    Mar 29, 2001
    Mass
    That's assuming that the ball is on the ground. The referee may have seen a different view but neither of the ones on TV, from the field or behind the goal were in any way shape or form conclusive. Which doesn't imply that it did or didn't cross the line. But if they overturn calls without clear evidence they might as well junk the whole thing.
     
  15. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    Since I did this for a living, the advertisers with strong union components forced the issue. So, please don’t explain my business to me. I was there.

    Advertising boycotts do work. I was in the middle of several thru my years.

    as I said in my original post, they PSRA doesn’t have the same clout and the landscape has changed.
     
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While hoping to avoid a tangent, I would say that this is probably very much an understatement. We've seen titantic shifts in how advertising and partnerships work in sports since the late 1980s.

    And in the MLS case, Apple, Audi, et al just have deals with MLS. It's not like they or other entities are buying time on the local NBC affiliate (notwithstanding half time of the weekly national FOX game, stipulated).

    Also, they are Apple and Audi!

    Don't get me wrong, I found your initial post on this incredibly interesting and insightful to the history. But as you introduced it with, times, indeed, have completely changed.
     
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  17. soccerking1990

    Aug 11, 2010
    Texas
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lots to review
     
  18. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wasn't sure they'd still do this.
     
  19. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If they don’t portray everything as normal it undermines their argument that it is.
     
  20. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    By definition every intervention by Geiger and Barkey should be correct in PROs opinion, right?
     
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  21. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think I saw one VAR all weekend who wasn't a PRO admin?
     
  22. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Two of those players (Taylor and Montana) crossed the picket lines during the strike. The lack of solidarity within the union was probably the biggest reason the NFLPA ended the strike without a CBA and none of its demands achieved. It instead turned to antitrust lawsuits as its means to gain free agency and didn't get a CBA until six years later.
     
  23. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Seemed like the VARs were significantly more directive and insistent than we usually see (or is contemplated by VAR protocols).

    As a separate aside, the comments in The Athletic’s article about the replacement refs were truly astounding, with vociferous claims that not only were the replacement refs up to snuff, but were better than the regular refs . . .
     
  24. squamuloselaggard

    Your Mom's House FC
    Chad
    Sep 10, 2023
    [​IMG]
     

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