2024 MLS Match Day 32 Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by ManiacalClown, Sep 13, 2024.

  1. Tigerpunk

    Tigerpunk Member+

    Jun 17, 2004
    The review took like 10 minutes, you think they would have come to their senses at one point.
     
  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @incognitoind addresses this pretty well. I mean, it did go into full make-believe land. But that's just because they got it wrong. The idea that they got to make-believe land by traverseing subjectiveland is wrong, though, too.

    If this contact had occurred when the player in question was in an offside position, it's 100% a clear offside call (and would be more consquential than most interfering with an opponent offside calls). So the problem isn't that they went looking for something ticky tack. It's that they saw something obvious (the pick and contact off the ball) and then totally forgot the basics and entire underlining reason why they would need (or not need) to care about the rather obvious thing they were seeing. The fact that the review took awhile has more to do with inefficiency than a heightened level of subjectivity.

    This was a mistake--a wrong intervention and a wrong outcome--that occurred because three officials forgot the basic principle of offside at the wrong moment. In that regard, it's one of those really bad mistakes that likely will have short-term consequences for the officials. But it's also about those three officials and not about the VAR system itself (unless the argument is that the existence of VAR allowed the officials to make such an error, but that ship sailed a long long time ago).
     
    griffin1108 and Th4119 repped this.
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just around 4 minutes. Slightly under if you want to count the review process itself. Slightly over if you want to go goal-to-restart.

    I mean, I can't believe I'm in a position of sort of defending what happened here. Because I'm not. This was a horrendous error. But I think it's worth understanding how something like this happens. Once the alleged infraction is identified here and the VAR team gets tunnel vision, then Touchan is at the monitor and it's a lot of showing him everything and walking him through it, while Rivero makes his argument.

    So you've got the initial mistake in the booth where they identify the non-existent offside and then the mistake at the monitor where Touchan isn't aware enough to see the problem or inquisitive enough to ask the right questions. The only way anyone was "coming to their senses" once they went down this path was if Touchan was better at the monitor or if Balciunas (or Rivero) suddenly realzed they were wrong while trying to explain to Touchan they were right.

    And none of this is meant to be an excuse. I think both Touchan and Rivero (and Balciunas, for that matter) likely need to sit for this. Just because this was an honest mistake doesn't mean it's one that should be countenanced by PRO, because it speaks to a fundamental breakdown in the VOR and a lack of necessary awareness during the OFR by the referee.
     
    griffin1108, RedStar91 and StarTime repped this.
  4. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    I was going to come in here to comment to say that I actually think Benteke did commit an offside offense by being in the way of the opponent and preventing that opponent from challenging for he ball. After all, the defender did almost block the shock despite Benteke's contact, he reasonably could have been more able to defend without the interference.

    But then I went back and watched the review sequence and all they're looking at is the McVey "offside." And then Touchan verbally announces that the offside was by #97 (McVey)... Just a terrible mistake. You really feel for the referee crew here because that must have been an awful realization when they noticed.
     
  5. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the idea that Benteke committed an offside offence is the sort of looking-for-a-problem subjectivity alluded to above.
     
    stangspritzring and RedStar91 repped this.
  6. SouthRef

    SouthRef Member+

    Arsenal
    Jun 10, 2006
    USA
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Going back to the limited posting over the summer, I'm sure there are many factors but honestly in a lot of games there isn't much to talk about. In higher level UEFA competitions they have GLT SAOT and VAR; most every major league has VAR and a lot have GLT as well.

    Here in MLS, the two major rivalry games this week (Galaxy-LAFC and FCC-Crew) were well officiated without really any significant controversies. I would think those would generate posts but so far, nothing has been said about them. I think that's a credit to the match officials - even we can't find anything to pick at.
     
  7. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, I'm not 100% sure who helped Unkel get the O'Brien SFP (think it was Rivas at 4th but maybe Rockwell at AR1), but it saved them from having to go to review. Good stuff.
     
    frankieboylampard and StarTime repped this.

Share This Page