09/14/2024 Atlanta United vs Nashville Mercedes-Benz Stadium (7:30PM ET) REF: Armando Villarreal AR1: Cory Richardson AR2: Logan Brown - 200th AR 4TH: Ekaterina Koroleva VAR: Greg Dopka AVAR: Fabio Tovar FC Cincinnati vs Columbus Crew TQL Stadium (7:30PM ET) REF: Joe Dickerson AR1: Chris Elliott AR2: Jason White 4TH: Alexis Da Silva VAR: Younes Marrakchi AVAR: Jeffrey Greeson D.C. United vs New York City FC Audi Field (7:30PM ET) REF: Ramy Touchan AR1: Adam Wienckowski AR2: Adam Garner 4TH: Luis Diego Arroyo VAR: Jose Carlos Rivero AVAR: Peter Balciunas Inter Miami vs Philadelphia Union Chase Stadium (7:30PM ET) REF: Sergii Boiko AR1: Kyle Atkins AR2: Walt Heatherly 4TH: Joshua Encarnacion VAR: Sorin Stoica AVAR: TJ Zablocki CF Montréal vs Charlotte FC Stade Saputo (7:30PM ET) REF: Rubiel Vazquez AR1: Gianni Facchini AR2: Jeffrey Swartzel 4TH: Guido Gonzales Jr VAR: Jorge Gonzalez AVAR: Craig Lowry Orlando City vs New England Revolution Inter&Co Stadium (7:30PM ET) REF: Tori Penso AR1: Brooke Mayo AR2: Kathryn Nesbitt 4TH: Rosendo Mendoza VAR: Geoff Gamble AVAR: Jeff Muschik Toronto FC vs Austin FC BMO Field (7:30PM ET) REF: Chris Penso AR1: Cameron Blanchard AR2: Jeremy Hanson 4TH: Pierre-Luc Lauziere VAR: Luis Guardia AVAR: Mike Kampmeinert Chicago Fire vs New York Red Bulls Soldier Field (8:30PM ET) REF: Mark Allatin AR1: Jeremy Kieso AR2: Jose Da Silva 4TH: Gerald Flores VAR: Edvin Jurisevic AVAR: Brian Marshall - MLS Debut Houston Dynamo vs Real Salt Lake Shell Energy Stadium (8:30PM ET) REF: Jon Freemon AR1: Chris Wattam AR2: Ian McKay 4TH: Jair Marrufo VAR: Daniel Radford AVAR: Tom Supple St Louis CITY vs Minnesota United CITY PARK (8:30PM ET) REF: Marcos DeOliveira AR1: Eric Weisbrod AR2: Kevin Lock 4TH: Fotis Bazakos VAR: Ismail Elfath AVAR: Joshua Patlak Colorado Rapids vs Portland Timbers Dick’s Sporting Goods Park (9:30PM ET) REF: Filip Dujic AR1: Nick Uranga AR2: Mike Nickerson 4TH: Elijio Arreguin VAR: Allen Chapman AVAR: Claudiu Badea LA Galaxy vs Los Angeles FC Dignity Health Sports Park (10:30PM ET) REF: Ted Unkel AR1: Corey Rockwell AR2: Ryan Graves 4TH: Victor Rivas VAR: Kevin Stott AVAR: Mike Kampmeinert Vancouver Whitecaps vs San Jose Earthquakes BC Place (10:30PM ET) REF: Lukasz Szpala AR1: Micheal Barwegen AR2: Oscar Mitchell-Carvalho 4TH: Alain Ruch VAR: Geoff Gamble AVAR: TJ Zablocki 09/15/2024 Seattle Sounders vs Sporting Kansas City Lumen Field (7:15PM ET) REF: Drew Fischer AR1: Felisha Mariscal AR2: Eduardo Jeff 4TH: Elton Garcia VAR: Edvin Jurisevic AVAR: Joshua Patlak
Somebody want to explain the red card late in the 97th minute? Long ball goes from the Rapids defensive third (L to R on screen) into the attack. It goes over everyone and after it goes over the rapids attacker (Yapi) and Timbers defender come together and its unclear what, if any, contact was made by the attacker into the back of the defender. The defender takes a step, then grabs his back and falls over. Dujic races in and immediately shows red to the Rapids attacker. VAR sends it down and looking at replays there's not even an obvious point of contact, much less anything that rises to a red card. Despite that Dujic stays with his call. He also shorted the announced stoppage time by about 15 seconds when you look at when play was stop for the injury that occurred before the red card, then add in the time between injury and red card and the time played after the red card. Almost like he wanted to make sure the red card didn't impact the final result by allowing Portland to get a late equalizer. EDIT: At 6:12 in this video:
The play in question starts at about 6 minutes and 12 seconds into the highlight video MLS posted here: https://www.mlssoccer.com/competitions/mls-regular-season/2024/matches/colvspor-09-14-2024/ Maybe from another camera angle you can see Yapi clearly sticks Zuparic with a hypodermic needle? In all seriousness, the only possible explanation I can come up with is at 6:15 I see Yapi throw his arms out a little bit. I don't see anything in the contact there, but maybe there was something from another angle that showed him striking Zuparic in the face or something? That doesn't explain why Zuparic goes down holding his back, but I don't know what else he could have done to earn a red card there. I'd love a referee's perspective. Hopefully they cover this on Inside Video Review.
None of the replays from the broadcast show it from nearly as good of an angle as Dujic had on that one.
I’ve got no additional information than you have but consider this… the referee believe he saw something clear enough to give a red card and the VAR has to prove that he didn’t. Perhaps if he verbalized what he thought he saw the VAR could try and show that what he saw didn’t happen. But the burden of proof is high and you shouldn’t be wondering about some missing angle from the broadcast. An angle wasn’t shown to prove this did happen, instead maybe there was no angle to prove what the ref thought he saw didn’t happen
Yeah this is one where (assuming no other angles exist) I wouldn't be surprised if the league actually interviews the players if CO appeals. That has happened before. It could be as simple as a chat "off the record" with one of the reps on the appeals committee, or actually talking to the players through the unions. My bet would be if you see CO appeal and this is reversed it is the former. It happened so late in the game, it doesn't help anyone to go deeper than that. On the other hand, if CO does not appeal, then you can bet some other players (on either team) saw what happened and talked to the team. Obviously the referee was confident in his decision, and he didn't get the video he needed to undo that. But the appeals committee (and union) is going to want more than that.
Dujic clearly makes a motion showing that he saw Yapi throw an elbow into the back. Considering he was called to the monitor, barkey is probably going to be pissed off when this is shown on inside video review, because I assume the VAR didn’t see any video evidence from any camera angle that shows that the elbow was clearly thrown, so he then assumes that it just didn’t happen and that Dujic was wrong. I assume that if there was a clear video angle showing that it wasn’t an elbow thrown into the back, Dujic would have overturned it So barkey will probably say it shouldn’t have been called down at all since there was no clear video evidence to show that it didn’t happen, and therefore it wasn’t a clear and obvious error, and Dujic had the best angle and has to be trusted with what he saw
I think this is all much ado about nothing and, honestly, a bit of poor VARing. There's a hand motion with the left arm toward the back of the opponent. It's a kidney punch--quick and sneaky. Dujic saw it all and acted immediately. You can also tell from the body language of all the players, including the reaction of those in the immediate vicinity, that something bad happened. I also can see the striking motion with my own eyes on the main angle sent down to overturn the decision. Now, from that side angle and distance, it might not look like much. From Dujic would have the best angle and we've got to remember it's a deliberate and unexpected strike to the kidney area. My opinion is that Chapman has to read the overall situation and understand that he doesn't have any clear evidence to overturn. Instead, he just sort of went with an "absence of strong evidence is evidence to the contrary" argument. He put Dujic in a real bad spot and unnecessarily so. The irony is that if a VAR did that to Chapman, he'd be livid.
But the other irony is that Chapman probably doesn't give it on the field live if he were the referee himself.
I don't know. Chapman gives reds. If this is really what it seems to be from Dujic's perspective--a mostly unprovoked and deliberate punch to the back that the referee is looking right at as stoppage time wanes... kind of feel like it's the sort of red that everyone gives. Actually, if it is what Dujic believes it was, I think every referee definitely gives it. There's no mitigation here.
I can certainly see some sort of shove in the back, but it doesn’t seem to be with much force and I can’t tell if it’s a hand on the back pushing or a fist punching. That question, combined with the delayed reaction/simulation from the defender and the VAR send down, I think is why everyone (Rapids fans, Timbers fans, and neutrals) are puzzled by the call.
Is Instant Replay right that the goal in the DC vs. NYCFC match disallowed via VAR at the 2:50 minute mark was for offside? Are we sure it's for offside and not four a foul in the APP? I don't see how it is for offside and for interfering with an opponent. The contact made with the defender occurred once the attacker who set the pick got back in am onside position. Yes, the attacker was offside at the kick point, but then the ball fell to another attacker who started dribbling and, only THEN, that defender sets a pick on a defender. By that point, he is an onside position. I can see an argument for disallowing the goal for a foul in the APP or for obstruction, but not for offsides. Thoughts?
There was an in stadium announcement that would remove all ambiguity. The decision was given for offside
What they are circling is wrong, and if it were right, it would almost certainly be the wrong decision, since that player did not get involved into the play until after offsides reset. I think the offsides was on Benteke, and while I'm not sure that the man Benteke was screening ever had a shot to make a play, I at least understand the call.
Don't discuss the possibility that everyone in the VOR got this wrong and then Touchan also got It wrong. I'm also not sure how you would understand an offside decision against Benteke. The defender near Benteke is nowhere near the goalscorer, doesn't really even get engaged until the goalscorer has the ball (so offside is reset there, too) and there's maybe a brush of bodies. You're looking for something that isn't there. Again, do not discount the possibility that everyone just got this wrong.
So I've seen you write this and now Wiebe has said it. I don't see the "delayed reaction/simulation" here. Like, at all. Watch it live in real speed. He goes down immediately after when the contact appears to be. Wiebe says he takes a beat and a half or another step and that's just not true. Now, you can argue if a punch or strike to the back warrants a player going down but you can ask that about 75% of stuff in our sport. To me, the reaction is very timely and I think it actually sells the idea that he was unexpectedly struck in the back. I get people saying "I don't see it." I don't understand "I don't quite see it, but if I do squint and see it, I think he's simulating." And on the overall point, I love how Wiebe identfies the actual contact and then goes down the path of saying it's not excessive force because he couldn't possibly have generated the momentum for it to be that bad. I think people are forgetting or maybe just don't know what a "kidney punch" is and why there's an actual phrase for it. Quick and unexpected jab to the right location is going to hurt. Also, if this is a closed fist, shouldn't it be an open and shut case? I admit we can't prove that with the available video, but you can't disprove it either and if Dujic saw a closed-fist punch to the back of an opponent... what are we even discussing? Other than the, "well no replay proves that so I don't believe it," which I understand is just naturally going to be the disposition of many.
I did go back to look and you're right, the slow motion made it look worse than it was. There does seem to be a slight hesitation but that could be simulation or that could be "wait, what was that, damn that hurt!". Oh, once I found out it was for a punch then I understood why it would be a red, assuming the punch actually happened. There's just no way to tell from the available video and when I posted about the call on Saturday night I was not yet aware the call was for a punch in the back. And absent any other angles my assumption is that any appeal would be denied. If the Rapids don't appeal or MLS tells them it would be considered frivolous if they did then it would be pretty clear that the punch happened and everyone knows it. If the appeal goes through and its denied it would make it more of a "decide if you believe what the CR thinks he saw versus what the Rapids think they saw".
Just as one shouldn't discount the idea that a few officials butchered an offside call with DC, don't discount the idea that PRO won't go to bat here if it doesn't have evidence and/or MLS feels like it doesn't want the fight. No idea who has what political capital at the moment but there are a variety of ways and reasons Dujic gets thrown under the bus here. I don't think there's any real situation where "everyone knows it" unless he's admitted it to his coaching staff AND they don't want to pursue things. No one in MLS front office is going to be sure either way. Whether or not Geiger and PRO want to defend Dujic and spend capital there is anyone's guess. This is all one big black hole because of the relative absence of evidence. Chapman sending it down as a clear error only adds fuel to the fire of doubt. Will be very interesting to see how this one goes. But for my money, I'm very confident that Dujic got this right. No referee goes around making this phantom call AND sticking with it on video replay unless he's certain of what he saw. And the players' reactions in real-time jives with Dujic's assessment and reaction.
The burden of proof lies with Colorado to disprove what Dujic saw. You need to have a camera angle that shows that what Dujic saw isn't what actually happened. And I highly doubt they will ever get that. I'm just quite interested to see what the VAR saw that made him call Dujic for a clear and obvious error, because I would assume that the only way they call him down is if they DID have a camera angle disproving what he saw, like they see a swing of an elbow but no contact (which you could then say is still VC because it's an attempted strike). I really hope that the VAR's justification for calling Dujic over wasn't similar to Wiebe's "well it doesn't look like he swung his arm hard enough to cause that reaction, therefore it probably didn't happen and wasn't violent conduct" because that would be pretty bad.
Incredible! Just how? That's up there with one of the worst interventions in MLS that I can recall in a long time. That decision and Chapman's recommendation for an OFR highlight one of the fundamental flaws with the VAR (IMO) is that VARs are more likely to fish and look for a reason to disallow a goal and/or overturn an affirmative decision (red card given, penalty given, etc) than the inverse. I can't explain why, but it just feels that way. There is no way that goal should be disallowed.
I was being conservative as a DC United fan who was in the stands that game. Yes I think the decision was wrong. But what makes me think it was Benteke, other than that being a judgment call rather than just (shruggie) was that, at least live, it looked like Benteke was actively screening his man, that is, he was acting as if he was involved.
Except the referee proclamation on the field decried McVey and his position, and that's what the VAR squad was looking back and forth on during the broadcast. It was nonsense, and given the time it took to review it, I think we long surpassed "clear and obvious error" terrain and went well into subjectiveland, possibly into full make-believe.
I’ll say…until you sit in that seat I don’t think you know how it feels. It’s easy to tunnel in on a detail and forget the big picture and if all you look at is the possible interference then it’s not a far stretch to see how the other touch goes overlooked. That’s not an excuse. There is a process for checking offside decisions and it can break down. But it shouldn’t be a huge stretch to see how honest mistakes like this can happen.
Well Yapi is listed as out due to red card suspension for tomorrow night’s game on the official availability report from the Rapids. So either they chose not to appeal or they appealed and it was denied. Yapi was fined today for not leaving the field in a timely matter. Probably related to him reversing course and coming back to the sideline when the VAR was sent down.