05/31/24 New York City FC vs San Jose Earthquakes Yankee Stadium (7:30PM ET) REF: Mark Allatin AR1: Jeremy Kieso AR2: Adam Wienckowski 4TH: Pierre-Luc Lauziere VAR: Daniel Radford AVAR: Peter Balciunas 06/01/2024 D.C. United vs Toronto FC Audi Field (7:30PM ET) REF: Jon Freemon AR1: Jason White AR2: Brooke Mayo 4TH: Filip Dujic VAR: Timothy Ford AVAR: Joshua Patlak Inter Miami vs St. Louis CITY Chase Stadium (7:30PM ET) REF: Allen Chapman AR1: Walt Heatherly AR2: Justin Howard 4TH: Rubiel Vazquez VAR: Daniel Radford AVAR: Mike Kampmeinert New York Red Bulls vs Orlando City Red Bull Arena (7:30PM ET) REF: Drew Fischer AR1: Gianni Facchini AR2: Diego Blas 4TH: Pierre-Luc Lauziere VAR: Kevin Terry Jr AVAR: TJ Zablocki Philadelphia Union vs CF Montréal Subaru Park (7:30PM ET) REF: Ted Unkel AR1: Corey Rockwell AR2: Kevin Lock 4TH: Sergii Boiko VAR: Younes Marrakchi AVAR: Fabio Tovar Chicago Fire vs LA Galaxy Soldier Field (8:30PM ET) REF: Marcos DeOliveira AR1: Brian Dunn AR2: Stephen McGonagle 4TH: Jeremy Scheer VAR: Jose Carlos Rivero AVAR: Peter Balciunas Minnesota United vs Sporting Kansas City Allianz Field (8:30PM ET) REF: Joe Dickerson AR1: Adam Garner AR2: Mike Nickerson 4TH: Eric Tattersall VAR: Greg Dopka AVAR: Jonathan Johnson Nashville vs New England Revolution GEODIS Park (8:30PM ET) REF: Ismail Elfath AR1: Jeffrey Swartzel AR2: Noah Kenyawani 4TH: Rosendo Mendoza VAR: Sorin Stoica AVAR: Ian McKay Real Salt Lake vs Austin FC America First Field (9:30PM ET) REF: Alexis Da Silva AR1: Jeremy Hanson AR2: Eric Weisbrod 4TH: Matt Thompson VAR: Kevin Stott AVAR: Craig Lowry Los Angeles FC vs FC Dallas BMO Stadium (10:30PM ET) REF: Lukasz Szpala AR1: Corey Parker AR2: Kevin Klinger 4TH: Malik Badawi VAR: Jair Marrufo AVAR: TJ Zablocki Portland Timbers vs Houston Dynamo Providence Park (10:30PM ET) REF: Guido Gonzales Jr AR1: Nick Uranga AR2: Jeffrey Greeson 4TH: Calin Radosav VAR: Michael Radchuk AVAR: Fabio Tovar Vancouver Whitecaps vs Colorado Rapids BC Place (10:30PM ET) REF: Michael Venne AR1: Cory Richardson AR2: Gerard-Kader Lebuis 4TH: Victor Rivas VAR: Daniel Radford AVAR: Tom Supple 06/02/2024 Atlanta United vs Charlotte FC Mercedes-Benz Stadium (4:45PM ET) REF: Ismir Pekmic AR1: Matthew Nelson AR2: Andrew Bigelow 4TH: Sergii Demianchuk VAR: Timothy Ford AVAR: Jonathan Johnson
Beautiful build up results with a Luis Suarez goal. 👏Messi to Jordi Alba to Luis Suarez. pic.twitter.com/XWBDsjOJgz— Major League Soccer (@MLS) June 2, 2024 I'm hoping there is an angle that shows the St. Louis defender tripping himself. If not, I don't see how this is a good goal. Suarez, while inadvertent, clearly trips the St. Louis defender prior to connecting on the cross. Clear foul in the APP and what VAR was brought in for essentially.
On the available footage I can't see for certain that Suarez trips him but it sure looks like he does. FWIW I'm not sure this is inadvertent; he's a savvy older player who will do whatever he has to do to make space for himself.
From the Pool Report:A yellow card was initially given to Jack Elliott. It was upgraded to red on the field by Ted Unkel for serious foul play. The decision was made solely by Unkel. There was no VAR involved in the decision making.— Joe Tansey (@JTansey90) June 2, 2024 Ted Unkel changed his mind on which card to give Elliott because of the unfortunate injury to the Montreal player. That's after needing VAR to help with a clear elbow (minutes after another clear elbow). Bit of a nightmare (maybe I'm biased but no way was it red for Elliott for me)
To show I'm not biased I thought Lowe should have been sent off just after Elliott for studs to basically groin of a Montreal player so maybe it evens out. Not even yellow that time lol
I'm ok with the yellow to Elliott for his terrible touch lol. Also Unkel was spot on giving Gazdag yellow for a dive too.
Which he might be responsible for. He committed a tackle that endangered his own safety. I can already tell that this is going to be a Rorschach test. Lot of chatter in both directions by people in the know, so to speak. But I don’t see a reason to move from my initial reaction. Elliott won the ball fairly. Edwards came in late to a ball that he never could win. The fact that Elliott was punished and sent off is mind-blowing to me.
I hate to say it, but I think it’s been a shaky start for debutant referee Michael Venne and crew. Foul selection was strange early, very lenient, such that the first two fouls of the game were both sanctioned with yellow cards. Given the high bar for a foul, these cards felt out of place. Later, there was a situation where AR2 Kebuis flagged for a foul but pointed in the completely wrong direction; there was also a strange (and rather knit-picky, honestly) goal kick retake that slowed the game down on the other end. And finally a clearly wrong penalty whistled for Colorado, corrected by VAR (I would have even expected a yellow card for simulation). I don’t like to write negatively about referees especially on their debut, but we are here for honest analysis, not just pats on the back and compliments that everything went well. On the bright side, his confident and calm demeanor has been a bright spot, as was the well-spotted foul just outside of the penalty area at the end of the first half.
On a serious note, Elfath had multiple wrong KMIs in his debut, right? We’re not there yet tonight, and there’s still a whole half’s worth of opportunities for improvement.
Haven’t been watching too closely in the second half but just tuned back in for stoppage time… unfortunately Venne was too quick on the whistle and gave Colorado an attacking free kick when he should have let them continue with advantage into the penalty area. Did anyone else watch more of the second half? Again, to add positives, you can easily see why PRO thinks he might have potential. His apparent personality he displays on the field looks very composed, strong, and personable; those things are harder to teach. But there is probably some polishing to do in other areas.
Does anyone have other angles for the Alba offside reversal? He looks onside to me, but I'd like to see more as to whether it is clear & obvious.
Elfath's debut makes for some fascinating reading (though the links are unfortunately dead): https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/montreal-new-york-r-elfath.1944546/ It's particularly interesting when you know that several posters in that thread then went on to work MLS themselves. One big caveat, of course, is that a lot of the discussion regarding identification and promotion is also applicable only to that very specific era.
I’m flabbergasted by this VAR decision in Atlanta. There’s no way any of those angles tell you that the ball was over the line. Awarding a goal like that is crazy.
There are two different angles that are key. The one from the high 18 camera that appears to show a goal, and then one from the camera inside the goal that certainly does not conclusively confirm that it is a goal. For me, this is not definitive enough.
I just watched this on the Apple TV replay. I am in agreement with this. For me, if we are truly looking at "clear and obvious", "conclusive", or whatever it is you want to call it, both angles would have to show a goal. In my opinion, the video evidence just does not conclusively show that the ball completely crossed the line. For me, this was a "call stands" or "not enough evidence to overturn".
Any thoughts on Freemon's pen/2CT in second half stoppage time, which resulted in DCU tying the match? Maybe I'm in a hyper-critical mode right now, but I think the bar is getting way too low on holding for VAR interventions. There's a hold, yes. But it accomplished nothing. Even if you say it has to be a penalty (I'm not there, but let's stipulate) I don't understand why it's a caution. The ball was cleared legally by a header before it ever could even reach the player who was held. In other words, there was no promising attack. There was quite literally 0% chance of this resulting in a goal or goal-scoring opportunity. So what's the yellow card for? "Blatant holding" and selling the penalty? We say it a lot, but penalties and red cards like this--an incident where no one was looking for either yet both somehow are awarded--are a long, long, long way from the stated purpose and intention of VAR.
The biggest problem I have with reviews like this: if the attacker doesn’t throw his arms to the air and his legs to the ground, would the VAR even give it a second thought? Would they even notice the “hold” happened? That’s not to say there’s nothing there, but it feels like there’d be a different outcome if the attacker kept playing honestly, which just doesn’t sit right. And on the yellow card, I thought the same thing as you: there’s no promising attack at all, I can’t see why this is a caution at all.
Is that really a VAR issue? Or what players have been doing for a long time? Not simulation, but making sure that the fact they were fouled is noticed?
No, I think @StarTime has this right. Prior to VAR, the chances for an off-the-ball holding penalty kick were low. Quite low. Like astronomically low in many competitions. Now, they aren't. In fact, they are one of the more common penalties given via VAR. In some ways, this is good. We've always talked about eliminating or reducing holding in the penalty area, particularly on set pieces. So to the extent VAR makes defenders think twice about their actions, great. But I think the pendulum has swung or will swing soon way too far in the other direction. Players didn't throw their hands up and toss themselves to the ground at every opportunity (occasionally, yes, but not as a matter of course), because there was no chance they were getting a soft penalty that the officiating team couldn't even seen in real-time. Now that attackers know there's certainty the VAR will look at any hold that catches their eye and, consequently, they could earn a penalty and a goal on a play with no attacking opportunity... the incentive just went from 0 to 100 in a flash. And, if they haven't already, coaching staffs are going to notice that. I'd be shocked if attackers weren't briefed on this now. So it's a double-edged sword. It might reduce holding. But it will also encourage embellishment. And just from a VAR/refereeing standpoint, rather than a blanket robotic "yes there was a hold, so yes it is a penalty" reaction, I'd like some common sense to be exercised. I mean this goes back to that hold late last season (Seattle) between Stott and Mendoza (I think?) that was WAY off the ball and VERY blatant but affected nothing whatsoever. If we can't settle on a line of intervention for that, why are we so sure that this is a penalty? And again, separately what's the justification for the yellow card other than to sell the penalty?