2024 MLS Match Day 12 Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by ManiacalClown, Apr 30, 2024.

  1. SouthRef

    SouthRef Member+

    Arsenal
    Jun 10, 2006
    USA
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He read that well - there were some token protests but almost of the anger was directed at the player for a dumb card. He was called out by the coach post-game as well.
     
  2. TheRealBilbo

    TheRealBilbo Member+

    Apr 5, 2016
    Kubo touches the ball to the left as the slide comes in from the right. From behind it probably looks like the slide got the ball. Review shows the actual contact. Best view is from the goal line, which is one the ref will never have.
     
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  3. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
  4. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Wow. That’s nasty
     
  5. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    #30 MetroFever, May 5, 2024
    Last edited: May 5, 2024

    "So, how was your first match?"





     
  6. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Greater Pittsburgh
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No full speed view of the Aviles challenge available on the match replay. Tackle happened during a replay of a Miami chance.
     
  7. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    MetroFever repped this.
  8. SouthRef

    SouthRef Member+

    Arsenal
    Jun 10, 2006
    USA
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's a fair point but still, the 2022 MLS Cup Final is something that I have a hard time getting out of my mind and frames a lot of how I looked at this
     
  9. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    What on earth is the referee watching? Clear red card as day.
     
  10. American IFAB

    American IFAB New Member

    Referees
    United States
    Mar 27, 2024
    Tori maybe didn't have the best view of the challenge..
     
  11. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Greater Pittsburgh
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I *still* haven't gotten to see a full speed replay of this challenge, and it's Monday so that means something (iykyk).
     
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  12. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Member+

    May 25, 2006
    There wasn't a full-speed shot during live coverage. They caught the tail end of it as they were coming back from a replay.
     
  13. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Do you guys really need a full speed replay?

    It's so obvious.

    It's not too far removed from this.

     
  14. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Greater Pittsburgh
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Scratch that. I have now seen it at full speed. Looks as bad as I thought it would.
     
  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While I think both are red cards, I do think there are two key differences with that Pinto tackle.

    First, the force of the Pinto tackle was directly through the back and was with the second leg. Here, the force is on the side and with the lead leg; the second leg looks ugly, but doesn't really do anything to the opponent in this case.

    Second, that was like the worst tackle in a tournament where everyone knew if you came straight from behind you were getting red. The fact that Pinto, Portugal, et al complained (and still complain) about that was just stupifying. It was a red card 1000 out of 1000 times at that tournament and in that era of international football. Here, well... everyone just got up and no one appealed for anything more than a yellow. The on-field decision was immediately accepted.

    None of that makes it right. Watching it, I have red. You shouldn't be able to leave your feet and launch yourself at an opponent like that, make significant contact (and high), miss the ball, and not see red. But I think it's several orders removed from that 2002 tackle.

    Also, despite the fact that I am now sure PRO wanted red there, the downstream potential effects for T. Penso having to give red to Miami there via OFR are not insignificant. By no means am I saying she downgraded (like, not at all am I saying that). But all things being equal, once the yellow is given and accepted, I'm sure she was very glad she didn't get called over.
     
  16. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    I did it "it is not too far removed." Pinto's is far worse, but the Miami tackle isn't drastically too far off.
     
  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fair enough, but I think it all depends on our respective definitions of "drastic." The Pinto tackle was shocking--if it were against any other team aside from Korea Republic (or any competition other than the World Cup), it probably would have set off a melee. If you watch the Miami tackle in real-time, a single teammate takes momentary exception and then all is well when Penso immediately has the yellow out.

    At least from a real-time perception standpoint, they were quite different. And even the through the back versus hard and at the side has to matter for differentiating purposes. Yes, they both were lunges from distance nowhere near the ball and with the opponent getting their body between the "tackler" and the ball. But I think things start to diverge quickly soon after that.
     
  18. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Greater Pittsburgh
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because it runs counter to a lot of opinions here, I'll mention that the official verdict is correct check complete.
     
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  19. SouthRef

    SouthRef Member+

    Arsenal
    Jun 10, 2006
    USA
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    well.
     
  20. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Just because a governing body says it is a correct check complete doesn't mean it's right.

    I mean Dale Johnson and the PGMOL come out every week supporting laughable non-interventions.

    MLS/PRO are not immune from making the same mistake.
     
  21. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sure but this was deliberately chosen as a teaching exercise internally. PRO didn’t have to say anything at all, other than to the crew. So simply for that reason, it’s a relatively important determination as it is precedent going forward for all officials.
     
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  22. SouthRef

    SouthRef Member+

    Arsenal
    Jun 10, 2006
    USA
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    If someone is able to share the reasoning behind this I am definitely curious
     
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  23. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Greater Pittsburgh
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is important. PRO trains, assigns, and evaluates officials for MLS. If those officials wish to get appointments of maximum quantity and quality, they have to make the calls within those expectations. We can argue until we're blue in the face about whether this *should* reach the line of intervention, but if they say it doesn't, then for MLS officials it doesn't. In this case, PRO has it from the side, does not have a scissor action, and doesn't have the tackler coming down on the opponent with his weight. While I would *respectfully* disagree with the second consideration there, I do see what they're seeing on the third. PRO also had concerns about re-refereeing on this one due to the decision being so readily accepted on the field.
    Now, would I give a red for this challenge? Very likely unless I just saw it wrong. I also don't work for PRO.
     
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