2024 MLS Cup Referee Discussion (GONZALES Jr) [R]

On the non-PK decision in the 93rd minute, perhaps we had another case here of "Interference from PRO officials".

I didn't want to chime in yesterday without giving it another look today. Just looking at the one replay TV gave us, it does seem to be a PK for most of the reasons already given here, but not enough to say definitively without seeing another angle.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but there have been rare cases in the past where PRO did release videos and audios on why a call didn't meet the "Clear and Obvious" bar where the referee is not involved in seeing the video. Since not much was going on in this game prior to this, would love to hear the conversation between Younes and TJ in their final "Week In Review" and will bet after watching another angle they commented that Elias Manoel "went down too easily".

 

How old is he?

It also makes me wonder who is coming off the list, assuming the US stays at 7 male FIFAs. The only ones who have been there since before 2023 are Villarreal (2015), Elfath (2016), and Vasquez (2020).

 

The question is does Gonzalez want it? I'm sure he wants the honor, but is the commitment, for him, really worth it at this stage in his career.

It would basically be just to have the badge. He won't really have a path to go to any tournaments as Spzala, Rivas, Dickerson, etc. are all ahead of him in the pecking order.

So is the commitment required to he a FIFA worth it to just get some international friendlies and go to the Caribbean to referee Turks & Caicos versus Haiti?

Similar to what Unkel did a couple of years ago when he stepped down from the FIFA panel?

 

What is the total number of spots available for US men?

 

In the playoffs a few weeks ago and covered by PRO on "Week In Review", this "subtle" and quick jersey grab (already discussed in another thread) was whistled as a PK by Pekmić since it impeded the ability of the player to make a play for the ball (4:26 on the video):



While I realize that no 2 plays are alike (especially since this was one was called a foul on the field), Elfath believed it met the "Clear and Obvious" threshold as he and the AVAR felt there was "no impact on the play". Interestingly, they're looking at the same angle over and over as we were on Saturday.

I'm guessing a similar conversation was held on the Galaxy/Red Bull play in the 93rd minute. In the Manoel play, he's held by both arms and you can see his jersey moving on the way down, so you can make an argument that this was one was WAY more egregious that the one in the Orlando City/Charlotte match.

 

He's a 2004 graduate of Seton Hall, so he would be about 42 now.

 

a couple of trips to Turks & Caicos, USVI, and Aruba wouldn't get the most terrible thing to endure over the next 2 years leading up to a World Cup. Those sound like much better trips in CONCACAF than Guatemala and Honduras for the "big" matches anyway.

 

They’ve done Inside Video Review on MLS Cup before. Off the top of my head, they definitely did it for the Crépeau red card in 2022. And that one wasn’t even a review! Just a “check complete” about the eventual call on the field after Elfath got convinced to switch the yellow to a red (the desire to explain how that call got changed was probably the reason why we got that video).

The thing that’s weird about this for me is that MLS these days always has a very tight grip on their media image. That’s not to say the video is definitely damning, because it would make just as much to not post any video just for the sake of not igniting a debate that no one is really talking about. I just don’t think we’re likely to get another angle of this, ever.

The fact that Elfath thought that foul was a clear and obvious error makes me wonder if there was some instruction or suggestion behind-the-scenes to the VARs that the bar for a holding foul should be very, very high. That’s really the only way I can make sense of the Orlando-Charlotte review, anyways. It’s such a clear foul. And that hypothesis would easily explain the lack of review here, too.

 

They had inside video review for the playoffs last year too. That was where they had the DOGSO-H on the goal line that went uncalled and VAR didn’t call it down because chennard couldn’t tell if it was natural position or not. Barkey said it should have been a red card because whether it was natural or not, it stopped a goal.

See, now THAT would have been a good time to have a PRO rep there to override the VAR and force them to give a red card

 

Last year was the Matt Miazga incident where he entered the locker room post-game also. I barely remember any PRO comments on that one, but lots of PSRA social media posts. MLS suspended Miazga but then it miraculously went away during the strike, right?

 

What does that have ti do with anything that happened in MLS Cup?

 

https://awfulannouncing.com/soccer/did-anyone-actually-watch-the-mls-cup-final-on-apple-tv.html

No referee related, but MLS related and indirectly relayed to future PRO/PSRA negotiations.

Genuinely fascinated on if the Apple TV deal is working out.

I thought it was a bad idea from the jump, but could see the logic MLS had in trying to get ahead of everything with non-linear TV platforms.

 

BTW this is an awful article as it doesn’t understand that the game is primarily on MLS Season Pass and then also broadcast for free on Apple TV+. So we still don’t know how many people watched on the primary platform for MLS.

 

The Apple deal might go beyond the topic of PSRA negotiations. Will the league still be around after this long deal is over (I hope so)?

Our local team (NY Red Bulls) made it to a championship game for the first time since 2008 and it was hardly mentioned on the local news. The largest market in the country didn't care because 99% of the games are no longer on cable or free TV. We have two of the worst NFL teams and still couldn't get mentioned.

Garber was on at halftime and wouldn't give subscription numbers. If the numbers were great, they would go out of their way to brag and be specific with numbers in saying so.

The original NASL folded 7 years after Pele. If you don't think it can't happen again here just because they have a massive number of teams and Messi, no one thought this could happen back then....and it's similar to the number of years left in the Apple deal (8).

Similar mistakes are being made as they were back then. The NASL was scheduling top games in the summer at 1:00 p.m. in brutal heat. A title game at 4:00 p.m. simply does cut it. The proof is that the NWSL final did WAY better with an 8:00 p.m. start on a Saturday night, impressive considering stiff competition from college football.

There were are so many other failures that are too long to list here, such as all of the regular season games being played at pretty much the same time.

When the deal is over, is ESPN willing to add them back to their programming again on a regular basis if Apple is no longer interested? I totally understand the numbers were low back then, but now it's a league that very few mention, outside of MLS loyalists. Are enough fans still going to be around in 8 years and can it grow since you have to go out of your way to get the service? I don't know.

 

When the NASL was at it's peak, they expanded to another 10 teams in only two or three years, even though we didn't have the American talent needed yet, and the owners did it because they didn't want to turn away the influx of cash each team was bringing in as far as an "expansion fee" upfront. I am seeing so many similarities.

Can anyone explain what MLS is currently doing with the 1.2 Billion to make them sustainable in 8 years if Apple chooses not to renew (or more likely for a considerably lower amount)?

 

You can quibble with the exact math and the details of the article. That's fine.

We had a New York vs. LA Final and basically no one cared. That isn't cared.

The league has made their product less accessible to the average, diehard, and casual fan and that isn't good.

But the overall point is the Apple TV deal from an interest and atings stand point hasn't been a success. I don't know if we can call it a point blank failure/disaster, but it isn't increasing interest in the league.

As @MassachusettsRef said, maybe the league has bet that the short term cash infusion from Apple will offset and any short term viewership declines.

We've discussed the waning lack of discussion on this thread to MLS and, overall, refereeing matters recently. There are a multitude of factors why.

In regards to MLS, you can't tell me that decrease in discussion on MLS officiating matters isn't somewhat related to the lack of accessibility in watching matches, all games occurring at the same time, etc.

 

I don't think the league is in danger of folding. It's here to stay. We now have almost 30 years of a viable proof of concept that the a domestic soccer league can work in this country.

I can see contraction as the league is fundamentally too big from a sporting and talent pool perspective. A 30 team domestic soccer league fundamentally can't work.

It's going to be around.

They do need to be introspective, but I don't think they will be if history tells us anything.

Garber and Co. are adamant that what they are doing is correct.

The calendar has to change and the start times have to change. Hopefully, 2026 will give them to impetus to make those changes.

 

If you're an MLS season ticket holder, you get to view the games for free. Since they're not divulging specific numbers at this point, it would make sense that many or most of their subscribers are are the ticket holders who would be watching anyway.

If this is the sample size after two years, it's nothing to be impressed with.