Pre-match: 2024 Friendlies v Panama {Oct 12th} & Mexico {Oct 15th} (Poch's 1st Window)

People weren't angry with the squad, they were angry with the performances of the players within the squad circa 2021 and 2022 (at times) and especially 2024.

I don't see the double standard. My view was that Berhalter's performance as coach established a low floor and low ceiling on the players potential game to game, players were rarely as good with Berhalter as with club, w/only a few exceptions (Reyna, Weah, maybe Dest)....The way '23-'24 played out called some of that argument into question w/a great many crappy club seasons post WC '22, so we'll see, given time, if the players can perform more effectively when used by a seemingly significantly more talented coach, or if the players limitations are and were always the problem.

That's the inherent context. There's a group here who thinks and thought the player pool was the problem, there's a group here and elsewhere that thinks Berhalter was the problem, and there's probably the largest group which thinks Berhalter was definitely a problem, but that the players were too.

As a nod to the latter argument, I think a great many of us, including me, who got thrown in the Berhalter hating brigade cohort (and I'm fine with it), viewed the Copa America as the definitive example of both sides having ammunition.

The Players were the problem argument got some ammo with the mentally weak, chicken ----, toothless performance when under pressure at Copa America. It was highly suggestive of a team that simply wasn't made of the "stuff" that great teams are made of in terms of "heart and head".

The Coach was the problem, argument, got a lot of ammo from the same because the players themselves admitted they did zero prep for how to play when down a man, despite having been red carded already in both of the previous major tournaments they played in (@ T&T in November of NL, and @ the NL Semifinals the previous summer in '23 against Mexico). There was apparently no prep for how to play down a man, nor serious consideration given to how to get players mentally "right" for handling Mexico, and idiot refs, to the extent that it was even reported that Berhalter may have accidentally heightened anxiety and stress by referencing the idiot ref as a problem in pre game prep before the Panama game.

On top of that you have criticism of the in game tactics to handle the card, and to adjust w/half time subs etc.

On top of all that you have the Uruguay game, and the knowledge that you likely needed a multi-goal win to beat Panama on GD tiebreaker, and yet Berhalter lined them up to defend, producing 1 shot on goal through 75 minutes in a game we needed 3 points from AND potentially +2 GD points.

there is more beyond that.

But this comes down to 3 things:

Is it on the players?

Is it on Berhalter?

Is it a blend?

I was a Berhalter is to blame guy who eventually became a Berhalter AND the players are to blame by July '24, but even then, you can't change the pool so you change the coach, as I thought they should have in '19 and '21, and 1000% by '23 (though admittedly, I preferred Berhalter to March at the time, which appears wrong, and considering we got Poch, I'm fine w/them having mistakenly hired Berhalter in '23 considering the pay off, even if the process was idiotic).

 

Bigger picture, I think that if you read about Pochettino, it was very clear that shaking up the pool was never going to be Step 1. Fans already have huge biases relative to coaches regarding player pools -- they always want faster and more drastic changes; they are eternally hopeful that someone else is always better; and because player selection is so easily parsed, it's the lever they want to pool.

But Pochettino is a new agey dude who believes in helping people reach their potential. I am dead sure he wants to talk to these guys, see how they practice and work out, and give them a chance to prove their commitment and worth to him, specifically. Clean slate. It would not shock me if he even called in some guys he is skeptical of.

I think, in regards to Steffen specifically ... there's also this component of age and experience I think he likely wants in a keeper.

But the bigger thing is ... his Step 1 isn't looking for new players. It's improving the existing pool, both short and long term.

 

The situations are entirely different.

G had 6 years of oversight on this player pool. Numerous A and B/C team camps. Poch is coming into his first camp and generally when a new person in charge comes in, they offer a clean slate and want to assess people/talent themselves before making significant changes.

What is the point of comparing the two?

I would target the spring as when we really start to see Poch molding this group against the player pool after having two A team camps and Jan camp.

 

Presser for anyone who wants the whole thing

 

On #3 I think the problem is the chief culprits for such targets would be guys like McKennie, but do we really want to punish McKennie when he's actually seemingly straightened things out after a horrid run during the late winter, spring and summer of '24? And punishing Weah is weird because he's been injured nonstop, and honestly, I have to be consistent anyway: I wasn't punishing Dest for a March '24 NL SF/Final for the stupidity the previous November, so why would I punish weah for the same, especially when I think an uncalled foul against Turner, and Berhalter's pregame warning about the ref being a nutbag probably caused the issue in the first place (making players stress heighten, and make them more prone to irrational overreactions like when youre driving in traffic, get cut off, and perhaps turn into a lunatic version of yourself. Everyone knows how heightened your anger and frustration gets when you play sports and feel like a ref is against you and then get seeming confirmation)....

I don't know, I think I was in the no guaranteed spots camp, or close to it, but it's also problematic because what are you gonna do? Call in Freaking Jonathan Lewis? Jonathan Amon for a '19 old timers game?

I just don't think there's a simple or clear way to address players "fat satisfied cat" syndrome w/a new coach in September. I would imagine the no guaranteed spots things will already play out since Poch is going to evaluate the guys and nobody is getting 1-4 years of good will like guys that helped Berhalter right the ship since '19 or '21 got....These guys are in the equivalent of the March '19 camp with Poch. They can earn it, or fall off, in this moment and beyond.

 

Yes it would be best for Aaronson's development as a player to not constantly move around, but I think the most useful thing he's ever going to offer the USMNT is his versatility (as Poch says, left or right, 8, 10)... I just don't think his upside is ever going to be clear starter at any position for the full strength national team. But I would love to be wrong on that, nothing against him personally I just don't see it...

 

Or summer, he'll have an entire European Club season to look at, he'll have had the time to check out the kiddos and MLSers at Cupcake, by June he should have a clear depth chart, and some guys right here, might have fallen off. We'll see. The current roster is not terribly surprising to me other than GK, GK I find super alarming. I don't like being inclined to wonder if he's simply calling in guys who've played in the shirt the past few years, and doing zero leg work on the catastrophe that is the position as played by those vets (Steffen sucks, Horvath Sucks, Turner has sucked lately, mixing it up at GK was a must, and wasting one of the last 10 windows on some guys who have zero chance of being relevant in '26 is a HUGE MISS). But I am also not shocked that he was this conservative at a position that is so thoroughly intertwined w/everything else.

 

There is no magical player whose addition to the pool will change thangs. Except for Cavan.

 

It's probably time to just move on, but (a) I've never put you into the irrational Berhalter hater club even if I disagree with many of your takes and (b) it's always a blend.

It literally can't be anything else. There's no "problem" just levels of performance that are influenced the most by the players and less by the coach. Even if the coach and players are good, sometimes the interaction is bad. Sometimes there's a bad day by one or the other.

I will continue to disagree with a lot of the characterizations of the first cycle. There were many challenges with injuries and a very young, constantly changing pool. And we largely won CONCACAF (even in WCQ, our underlyings were the best, and we won a B team Gold Cup) while also performing as we should at the World Cup. And no, I'm not debating goal margin in the Round of 16.

The second cycle was a mistake, and the last six months of it, it was clear the combination wasn't working. And specifically here, I think the message had dulled. We have a young, emotional team. Sometimes shit just falls apart. Sometimes you need a jumpstart. And perhaps we had just reached the limits of what Berhalter had to offer.

But that doesn't retcon the first cycle for me. Some of those issues were there in lighter form, but I also think it validates some of the other choices -- it's pretty clear the younger/talented version of potential rosters doesn't have the mental state to motivate and bring intensity every game. Having dudes like Morris, Zimmerman, Acosta and even Roldan on the roster actually make MORE sense to me now watching how a number of the more talented players simply bring zero intensity.

Perhaps Berhalter was keeping people accountable in the first cycle; work rate was a standard.

Perhaps Berhalter should have been able to jumpstart the younger guys in Cycle 2, but I also think making sure your roster has a majority of hard workers is a good way to actually set that standard rather than just talking it. That's a viable coaching step.

Poch should do better. For one, a change of pace was needed. For two, his resume will inspire more respect. For three, I think he'll be more comfortable demanding more because of his resume. And four, I think he's very likely a better coach across the board -- better tactically, better in teaching things.

That's all great. But in the end, the players still need to play. And some of these guys ... that intensity may not be in them, no matter the skill set. Maybe, maybe not.

We certainly saw good intensity in many of them in Qatar, but some of the others are really yet to be tested.

 

I'm still criticizing rosters post-Gregg. The criticisms are fairly minor, as they were when the criticisms of the Copa America roster were "Shaq Moore and Sean Johnson"... the bottom line is 95% of the USMNT roster sort of picks itself, any quibbling is over the final 2-4 spots. But we might as well still do it, because what the hell else are we going to talk about??

Some people are going to be easily triggered by any questioning of authority, not sure why they even bother to post opinions that other people shouldn't post opinions on a soccer opinion board.

Yes I am the only one questioning whether Steffen has been good enough this season to deserve a call up, you got me!

Also, I don't see what's different about criticizing Shaq Moore before and criticizing Zac Steffen now?
Backup RB versus Backup GK... seems comparable.
Not sure how you're differentiating between the two above.

 

I mean, no, but I've never been the "hold accountable" guy. I think you have to hold people accountable to a standard, but the sort of quick trigger, macho, don't call in consequence is something that is a later stage choice, not immediate.

In McKennie's case, he's always been up for real games, so I highly suspect that he was very worn down and probably with some nagging injuries. If Berhalter had a lineup weakness, it was probably playing too many of the stars hurt at times, though that worked in the WC.

I'm fine with this roster in general even if there's picks I wouldn't make.

But I never wanted a housecleaning -- it makes no sense to me. For one, we are not so talented that we can do that.

And two, it's especially a bad idea since my BEST guess as to the end of the Berhalter era was simply that it had run its course motivationally. Motivation was never Berhalter's best attribute, and it was always a concern that 5+ years of it would end like this. And especially since we have a young, emotional team. There's a few Pulisics, but a whole lot more Johnny's and Tillman's as well as a bunch of McKennies and Dests.

I just find it funny that we went from constant criticism that we stocked the back end of the roster with high work rate / physical / veteran guys over talented youngsters, then criticized Berhalter's later teams for lack of intensity and work rate but assumed it was being comfortable (ignoring the guys who you'd call in to replace them are often the same try hards), and now everyone is hunky dory with calling the exact same roster.

I don't know how much of the malaise was the end of a coach that had run his course and how much, for some of these guys, is simply who they are, but we're going to find out pretty quick. Because I don't think we should blame a lackadaisical effort on Pochettino.

And I will be interested to see if we see the same criticism of too complex, etc. if people look mechanical. Because I guarantee you that Poch isn't bringing something super simple to the table there.

 

I mean, when a new coach comes in they are projecting the talent at hand vs fit in their system and what they can do with the players.

Poch and his team made a presentation to Crocker about our players during their first meeting. It is the rational and expected next step to get together with that talent up close and see how they fit into his staff's plans.

Not instead drop players from the full team before even giving them a chance to work together. That would be extremely unusual. What some don't appear to get (not you) is that a new coach isn't gonna make decisions from the start based on how a player was under a previous coach and system. They are forecasting how that talent fits in their system.

There will likely be new additions to the team in the coming months but this is less about a Poch roster vs a G roster and more about what Poch can do with this roster vs G.

Our top 20 players are by and large our top 20 players. New additions/fluctuation down the road is gonna be the support and 2nd/3rd options. Which of course isn't something you focus on in camp 1.

 

Look, I have no doubt that you will post and cross post 35 times a day about Steffen until the window ends, but let's just say the overall level of acceptance of the borderline picks is suddenly much, much higher.

 

There are definitely guys on this roster that I suspect will not fit very well with Pochettino's preferred tactics or his work rate standards.

But I didn't ever think he wouldn't give them a chance to prove it.

 

He looks a bit like Russel Crow there.

 

I'll just have to complain about Steffen even more to keep up the average

 

I know its always a blend, but people don't see themselves that way consistently and definitely do not judge others that way. As the old saying goes, "we just others by their actions and ourselves by our intentions".

 

I guess my point is that my main disagreement all this time has always been largely that far too much blame is put on Berhalter (and really, any coach) and especially for things that it requires quite a leap of logic to do. (And my other point is that, just like any relationship, just because it ended badly doesn't mean it was bad the whole time.)

There is a serious disconnect between "we need to hold players accountable" and "that player didn't try hard because of the coach."

Coaches can influence motivation, but at the end of the day, work rate is a player decision / skillset. If we're going to hold people accountable ... maybe let's not blame everything that goes wrong on the coach.

I'm excited to see Poch because I really do think he can make us better. But there's a much smaller part of me that is also excited for folks to question the level of control a coach has.

 

So, who de we expect to start at CB and GK based upon who is listed? Let's get the ball rolling.

 

If you're going to make a statement like that you have to say what era Russell Crowe (and also spell at least one part of his name correctly)

Miles - McKenzie and Schulte GK would be the lesser weevil

 

Where’s Brooks?

 

I have no idea what Pochettino will do. I'd say that after last window, I'd be ok with a split in goal, giving Schulte one game and Turner the other. I think Turner at his best is probably better than Schulte, so I'd keep giving Turner a chance to get back to that level until it's clear he can't or someone else does.

At CB, I'd probably go McKenzie-Robinson, though I'm not sure if I trust McKenzie.

 

Zack those aren't the current kits and you can't wear jeans

God is good. Looking forward to putting these threads back on! 🇺🇸 pic.twitter.com/Dq7iTy7PVe

— Zack Steffen (@zacksteffen_) October 2, 2024

 

This is how I see it. It won’t be until the summer that Poch has a handle on his go to guys.
This roster is what I expected, though Steffen is a surprise. However, I expect about a half dozen of these players will be out of the picture next summer.