2024 CONCACAF W Gold Cup

"Consistently"? She's missed one PK that's actually hurt the US. How is that consistently?

Remember that US vs Netherlands match at the Olympics? Multiple offside goals disallowed, and I don't recall Morgan being at the heart of that. Keep that same energy towards other forwards who get caught offside a lot as well. Also, how many offsides have seriously hindered team progress?

 

Don't think I said off day? If I did, I will clarify. I think they can beat Spain even if Spain plays well. With the right tactics, the USA has players who can give Spain big problems. They have the ability to hurt any team in transition if used right. They need to stay more compact and disciplined defensively and hit hard on the counter with efficiency.

 

I dont think its respect. I think we are set up tactically wrong with some of the wrong players. I think the USA respect most teams

 

I give Morgan a lot of credit for adapting her game and I am not a big fan. That said, she does not have the physical tools I would look for in a target 9. I want a more physical presence who can win duels aerially and on the ground consistently.

Morgan has proved me wrong. I never thought she could adapt as well as she has as her speed eroded.

 

I also think they can beat Spain if Spain play well; I don't think they can beat Spain if Spain finish well though. There needs to be an explanation on why Girma has played so little; she's critical to the team staying "more compact and disciplined defensively".

 

Girma is critical to this team because she reads the game well and has recovery speed. I can find out why if you want one of my Ds best friends!

 

hey Ethen, off thread, but what happened to the Dutch? I’ve never seen them flop this bad, especially with the sold out, hometown advantage vs Germany

 

well the good thing with the Olympics format is it allows 2nd, even 3rd chances as three teams can advance to the playoffs after the initial group stage
On paper, Canada did not look like it was going to win the gold medal—I mean they had 3-4 college players & some of their regulars—Fleming Beckie Huitema Leon Gilles were just subs(back then) on their respective pro clubs
They must of had a very successful pre tournament, training & conditioning camp to pull that off. So yeah, anything could happen at the Olympics—especially a tournament that don’t even have some of the best teams due to only allowing 3 Euro teams even though theiy make up FIFA’s 6 of the top 7 currently ranked teams in thr world

 

Which could explain the lack of width, if they're trying to learn to defend in a pack instead of "Julie will get there..."

Rewatched the Spain England final, I think we are better suited to play England's game than to try and out Spain Spain . Hopefully the coaches see it that way too...

 

The USWNT are too busy trying to prove that they can play a style of game others do. Hiding to nothing. Perfect what we do well. Pick the players who can execute that the best. Horan is a fine player, but it’s possible she is not a good fit in the most effective style to consistently trouble the best teams.

Before anyone gets mad. Just used her as an example

 

Major fitness/injury concerns, Martens nowhere near her best, Beerensteyn having the worst tunnel vision, Van de Donk playing just after recovering from illness (i.e., Germany’s first goal), and Spitse and Casparij really struggling defensively in the second half.

 

If you guys are excited about Albert, watch out for Gaetino. She’s been great for PSG so far, and Precheur has had no hesitation benching Hunt for Gaetino.

 

Here is the line-up I’d like to see Twila Kilgore start for the US tomorrow against Colombia:


---------------------------------------------Naeher------------------------------------------------


Fox--------------------------Grima-----------------------Davidson-------------------Dunn


----------------------------------Albert-----------------Horan----------------------------------


Shaw----------------------------------------Lavelle-----------------------------------Rodman


-------------------------------------------------Smith------------------------------------------------


1. 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-4-1?

One question is whether Kilgore should start the team in a 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-4-1/modern 4-3-3. In the US’s second game in the 2017 Tournament of Nations, which was against Brazil in San Diego, Jill Ellis started the US in a 4-1-4-1/modern 4-3-3. Prior to then, Ellis had generally started the US in a 4-4-2. But, while starting in a 4-4-2 against Australia in the first game of the 2017 Tournament of Nations, the US lost 1-0 in Seattle. In the next game, Ellis switched to a new formation, starting Becky Sauerbrunn as the lone defensive-midfielder. According to soccerway.com, here is the way the formation looked:

https://us.soccerway.com/matches/20...ment-of-nations/united-states/brazil/2451673/

The US won 4-3 and played well. The next game against Japan, Ellis started Julie Ertz as the one defensive-midfielder in 4-1-4-1/modern 4-3-3. Here:

https://us.soccerway.com/matches/2017/08/04/world/tournament-of-nations/united-states/japan/2451675/

The US won 3-0. If I’m not mistaken the US started in this formation in the next 112 games. During that time the US won one World Cup and one Olympics.

However, starting with the 2021 Olympics, and continuing through the Group Stage of the 2023 World Cup, the US were not playing up to their normal level and/or some of the rest of the world had caught up to the US. So, in the US round of 16 match in the 2023 World Cup (against Sweden), Vlatko Andonovski started the team in a 4-2-3-1, with Emily Sonnett and Andi Sullivan as the two defensive-midfielders. Here:

https://us.soccerway.com/matches/2023/08/06/world/womens-world-cup/sweden/united-states/3705275/

Although the US lost the game in a shootout, I thought the US played their best game of the 2023 World Cup, and Sonnett played well. Since that game, Kilgore has often started the team in a 4-2-3-1, including in the US’s 3-0 win against Colombia—the team the US plays tomorrow—on October 29, 2023:

https://us.soccerway.com/matches/2023/10/29/world/friendly-women/united-states/colombia/4236157/

The US also started in that formation in their 4-0 against Argentina in the 2024 Gold Cup. Here:

https://www.fotmob.com/matches/usa-vs-argentina/1hyjta0#4424631

However, the US started in a 4-2-3-1 in their disappointing 2-0 loss to Mexico in the Gold Cup on Monday night. Here:

https://us.soccerway.com/matches/20...acaf-w-gold-cup/united-states/mexico/4278174/

Should Kilgore start the team in a 4-2-3-1 or in a 4-1-4-1/modern 4-3-3 tomorrow? I don’t feel strongly either way. On the one hand, the US has played well in a 4-2-3-1 since Andonovski started the team in that formation against Sweden in the World Cup. On the other hand, while starting a 4-2-3-1 against Mexico on Monday night and playing in it for at least most of the game, the US did not create many good scoring chances and lost 2-0, their first loss to Mexico since 2010. The US also had great success in a 4-1-4-1/modern 4-3-3 since Jill Ellis started the team in that formation against Brazil in 2017.

However, I would start the team in a 4-2-3-1 tomorrow. It gives the team one more player to play the ball to when building out of the back. Moreover, when starting in that formation, the US beat Colombia 3-0 in October of 2023. In addition, if the team is struggling in a 4-2-3-1, Kilgore could easily move Lindsey Horan forward to one of the attacking center-mids (in addition to Rose Lavelle), play Korbin Albert as the only defensive-midfielder, and have the team play in a 4-1-4-1/modern 4-3-3.

If Kilgore were to start the team in a 4-1-4-1 tomorrow, I think she should start either Korbin Albert or Sam Coffey as the one defensive-midfielder. Although I like what Sonnett brings to the team when she plays as one of the two defensive-midfielders in a 4-2-3-1, I would be uneasy starting her as the one defensive-midfielder in a 4-1-4-1 tomorrow. I would worry that she would get pulled out of position.


2. Davidson or Dahlkemper?

This is a close call for me. Abby Dahlkemper has played well for the US since Kilgore started her in the friendly against China on December 2, 2023. Moreover, Tierna Davidson played well against Argentina in this Gold Cup. Both players are good passers. Although Davidson may be faster than Dahlkemper, the latter may be less clumsy.

I would narrowly go with Davidson partly because she may be less prone to defensive mistakes. For instance, I remember Dahlkemper struggling in the US’s 3-0 loss to Sweden in the 2021 Olympics.


3. Albert, Sonnett or Coffey?

Since Andonovski started Sonnett against Sweden in the 2023 World Cup, she has played well for the US at defensive-midfield. She completes a high percentage of passes, has good range and provides good energy. But Albert may have better range and quickness than Sonnett. Albert may also be more able to make passes that break down a defense.

I like Coffey's game. She's a good passer and a smart player. But Albert may be more dynamic.


4. Shaw or Purce?

This is very close. Midge Purce might be the US’s best player right now at beating players off the dribble. She’s also faster than Shaw, whose speed seems to be average. But Shaw seems more capable of scoring goals than Purce. However, which one is more apt to help create a goal tomorrow? I don’t know.


5. Smith or Morgan?

Sophia Smith has been disappointing for the US in this tournament. Her back-to-goal work has been mediocre, and she hasn’t scored any goals. Meanwhile, Morgan has been decent with her back to goal and has scored 2 goals. But Morgan does not have the speed or one-on-one ability that Smith does. Smith is also more explosive and may be more apt to be goal-dangerous against Colombia. However, if Smith starts and does not play well, Morgan could come in for her at halftime or at some point in the second half.

One thing: Jaedyn Shaw has played some center-forward for the San Diego Wave. Here is a link to one game in which she started at the position against the Washington Spirit on July 8, 2023:

https://www.fotmob.com/matches/washington-spirit-vs-san-diego-wave-fc/jyrfc2xg#4119457

One possibility would be to start Shaw at center-forward and Midge Purce at right wing.


6. Olivia Moultrie

I’ve been watching Olivia Moultrie play for the Portland Timbers and the US. She is skillful and hard to knock off the ball. She also reads the game well and has scored 2 goals this tournament. I want to get her on the field.

But I wouldn’t start her in this game over Rose Lavelle or Lindsey Horan, as they are team leaders and have played pretty well this tournament, especially Lavelle. Moreover, Moultrie is so young. I also would be uneasy starting her at defensive-midfield. According to my (limited) research, she has little, if any, experience playing as a defensive-midfield as a professional. But if Trinity Rodman, Horan or Lavelle were to struggle, I would consider putting Moultrie in for them.

Moreover, if the US were to need a goal, Kilgore could put Moultrie in at forward or central midfield and switch the team’s formation to a 3-5-2. This would get more players in an attacking position.

 

I dont like the back line. IMO, both Fox and Dunn offensive payers who are at times tactially naive. Girma needs a thumper/duel winner alongside her and Davidson is not that. Alber Horan ar a double pivot offers limited protection. I would not pick Smith as anything but a sub.

All good players, but dont like the combination. Reality is, they dont need an optimal line up to win. Just my 2c.

 

USWNT is a different kettle of fish. Lots of alphas fighting to be top gun. Very hard to fit in to that environment

 

Of course. I’ve just seen a lot of (understandable) praise regarding Albert, and I’m more excited about Gaetino’s prospects.

 

That's wrong. The US hasn't won the Olympics in women's soccer since 2012.

Thanks for the comment.

Would you start Jenna Nighswonger at left back instead of Dunn? I can see that. Nighswonger played well and scored a penalty kick against the Dominican Republic. She also seemed to provide solid service on set pieces. However, I thought Dunn was solid against Mexico. Her passing was pretty good, and she wasn't responsible for any goals scored against the US.

Would you start Dahlkemper at center-back instead of Davidson? Dahlkemper is not exactly a "thumper/duel winner." She's a good passer, though. Is she a better ball-winner than Davidson? Probably. But Girma and Davidson started next to each other at center-back against Argentina and played well.

What would your overall starting line-up be for tomorrow's match?

 

Regarding lineups, question #1 is: What is the team aiming for with its matches these days? Preparing for the Olympics or preparing for the next World Cup? The answers to what the lineups and formations should be depend on the answer to that question.

Regarding Moultrie playing defensive midfielder, the answer is "No." I have seen virtually every minute she has played for the Thorns. I am a fan, but she is not a defensive midfielder.

 

If most Smith over Morgan fans presented themselves like you did on number 5, I wouldn’t be so frustrated with them.

 

In terms of tomorrow’s starting line-up, the US should aim for preparing both for the 2024 Olympics and for the 2027 World Cup. Although the latter is a more important tournament than the former, the Olympics is still an important tournament, including because lots of people in the US are into the Olympics. Also, if the US were to have a good 2024 Olympics, and especially if they were to win the gold medal, it would help the US women’s program keep turning the corner after a disappointing World Cup.

Moreover, if the US wins tomorrow, they get to play at least one more game in the 2024 Gold Cup, perhaps against Canada, which is a good team and won the 2021 Olympics, including beating the US 1-0 in the semifinals. And if the US wins tomorrow, they also would have a chance to play Brazil or Mexico in the Gold Cup final. So, I think the US should try to win the match tomorrow. If they win, they will get at least one, and maybe two, more challenging games to prepare for the 2024 Olympics.

How do the above considerations affect who the US should start tomorrow? For one, I would start Rodman, Lavelle, Girma and Fox because doing so would likely increase the US’s chances of winning. And I would start Shaw or Purce because they could help the team win tomorrow. I also want to get them more experience for the Olympics and to show whether they should be on the US roster for the Olympics.

Thanks for your thoughts on Moultrie at defensive-midfield.

 

good point. That said, groups of complementary players makes sense.

 

Jenna is another offensive player who has been pushed to left back because in theory she could be a technical option. That said. She is not what I want at that position. Not fast enough, not strong enough to get into offensive positions and hurt the opponent often enough from there. She can get away with it in a ball dominant possession team that takes its time getting forward and then possesses a lot in the final third. That is not this group.

I would sooner start sonnet at CB than either. Need someone who wins duels. Sonnet had to be CB or CDM or you have no central cover.

good talk

 

Rose at the 8. She can progress the ball on the pass or dribble. Shaw at the 10. Albert at the 6.

How many times are we going to run Rose and Horan out there together before we realize it doesn't work. Rose hides as a 10. She played one game as an 8 for Vlatko and was brilliant at it. She can connect the lines, and Shaw is such a great passer, has great vision, and can create.

 

Alpert was not good when she came in against Mexico the other day. She looked like the moment was too big for her. I think she has potential and you have to give her a pass because of her age, but I'm not sure I'd be starting her anywhere the rest of the tournament.

IMO we have a good chance of beating Colombia regardless of who starts. Brazil, Canada, or Mexico we will have to be dialed though.

Brazil looked really dangerous last night, albeit against a poor Argentina side.