2023 USL/NWSL/USOC/MLS Next Referee Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by gaolin, Mar 7, 2023.

  1. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    Maybe, but I've met a lot of athletes over the years, and I've found most of them avoid punching down to the extent that Morgan and her teammates do. David Beckham is one of the nicest guys I've ever met. Earlier generations of women's national team players are generally respectful as well. UFC fighters are surprisingly reasonable.

    Not to generalize the other direction -- there are, of course, a lot of people whose competitive spirit boils over on occasion. And I'm a hypocrite because I'm a fan of both Duke (Coach K) and Liverpool (Klopp), neither of whom is known for being kind to refs.
     
  2. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, because the video shows the defender tackling over the ball.
     
  3. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    It's a classic case of getting ball and player. She absolutely wins the ball and gets up to play it.
     
  4. USSF REF

    USSF REF Member+

    Eintract Frankfurt
    United States
    Nov 6, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was (and still kind of am) a big Tony Meola fan growing up.

    But, my very best referee mentor, who has given me the most time and energy and help to making me a better official will often remind me of the US Open Cup game where he was the 4th official (at a USL venue) and Meola was resting that game for Kansas City.

    Anyway, if the story is as he purports to remember it, Mr. Meola was up and shouting at the referee or AR and so the 4th does his job and goes over to ask him to return to the technical area. And these are two men of Italian heritage, but allegedly, my hero Big Tony Meola says, to my best mentor... "Get back to your cage you F***ing Monkey!"

    When I first heard this story, I asked him if he was going to have the ref do something, and he just said, "they weren't paying me enough to make myself the star of the show that night." LOL.

    I think the pay was like $60 for 4th official back then. Maybe a little higher for an open cup... but couldn't be much more. Maybe he was wrong to take that approach, but it made a lot of sense to me.
     
  5. GoDawgsGo

    GoDawgsGo Member+

    Nov 11, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wise words. Nice guy, but just a local referee that’s never done anything more competitive than some local youth and HS matches and a few lower level amateur games. Never refereed at a high level and never been an instructor or mentor.
     
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  6. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To be totally fair, it’s just human nature in general. You’ll meet some people who are great people, you’ll meet some…….not so nice people. I’ve worked in enough industries and done enough side hobbies that I’ve seen it all.

    Plus, my referee friends who do a lot of D1 women’s matches generally say the level of snark in those games is off the charts. So I’m guessing what we see with many USWNT players and NWSL players is an outgrowth of that.
     
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  7. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Rumor has it PRO's opinion on the Morgan incident was missed PK and YC, with the slight contact on the ball being incidental to the reckless nature of the challenge.
     
  8. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    It makes sense.

    It did not make PRO Week in Review. Is my memory mistaken that more plays where VAR did not intervene were discussed in the past compared to this year in both MLS and NWSL?
     
  9. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    The print piece, the definite angle, often has more than WinR.
     
  10. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The print piece never addresses incidents that didn't go to review, though. The video segment does so once in a blue moon, but it is inconsistent to say the least.
     
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  11. gaolin

    gaolin Member

    Apr 21, 2019
    PRO's VAR review for NWSL came out for Week 22 games.



    2 of the 3 reviews (1st and last) were publicly opposed by PRO saying, in the 1st, the referee was correct to stick with their original decision and the 2nd, the Referee should have stuck with their original decision (and AR's).

    Not a fun week for NWSL the other week. How often does PRO publicly oppose reviews in the MLS?
     
  12. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    I suspect the rate of wrong review recommendations is higher in NWSL than in MLS. You simply have less-experienced VARs working those games. Not sure of the exact stats in MLS. I think PRO tends to present them in one of the last Inside Video Review episode of the season each year.
     
  13. AlextheRef

    AlextheRef Member

    Jun 29, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We had the first round of MLS NEXT Pro playoff games this past weekend. Interesting structure that the league is testing out:
    • 7 teams in each conference make the playoffs
    • Best record gets a bye from the conference QFs
    • The next two best records (sort of) get to choose their QF opponent, with the remaining teams playing each other.
    • In the conference semifinals, the #1 seed gets to pick their opponent.
    Here were the assignments:

    (#3) Sporting KC II vs (#4) Austin FC II
    Austin won 2-0
    REF: Brandon Stevis
    AR1: Noah Kenyawani
    AR2: Christian Clerc
    4TH: Karen Callado

    (#4) New York Red Bulls II vs (#6) Chicago Fire II
    NYRB won 4-1
    REF: Anya Voigt
    AR1: Brian Marshall
    AR2: Katarzyna Wasiak
    4TH: Kevin Broadley

    (#3) Columbus Crew 2 vs (#5) Orlando City B
    Columbus won 2-1
    REF: Abdou Ndiaye
    AR1: Nicholas Seymour
    AR2: Chris Canales
    4TH: Laura Rodriguez

    (#5) St. Louis CITY 2 vs (#6) San Jose Earthquakes II
    San Jose won 2-0
    REF: Alexandra Billeter
    AR1: Jennifer Garner
    AR2: Ben Rigel
    4TH: Alexis Da Silva

    (#2) New England Revolution II vs (#7) Philadelphia Union II
    New England won 3-2
    REF: Gerald Flores
    AR1: Mike Nickerson
    AR2: Art Arustamyan
    4TH: Danielle Chesky

    (#2) Tacoma Defiance vs (#7) Houston Dynamo 2
    Tacoma won 4-3
    REF: Nabil Bensalah
    AR1: Stephen McGonagle
    AR2: Tiffini Turpin
    4TH: Adorae Monroy

    I'm not sure whether there were any major referee controversies across the 6 matches, but I have been paying some attention to the league and didn't hear much myself.

    Wanted to get these postseason games on everyone's radar while the other professional leagues are gearing up for their postseason.
     
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  14. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
  15. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Well, if the true goal is to identify clear and obvious errors . . .
     
  16. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    The behind the goal camera is one of the most useful camera angles for PA decisions and for it having the reverse view of the referee. Craziness to think they don’t have that for VAR
     
  17. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    it’s not. It’s all about cost. The league simply isn’t going to pay for extra cameras. They are adopting VAR to appease people and don’t want to spend money on it as the league has more important investments to make. Now whether it is crazy to have VAR in this context is a whole mother question.
     
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  18. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    Interesting Inside Video Review from NWSL this week:

    Sergii Demianchuk took a lot of convincing to change his penalty decision at the monitor, it sounded like he was going to stick with penalty, but then the VAR Luis Guardia changed his mind.

    Then there was a rare OFR for offside that the referee rejected because he felt that the offside position was not clear.

    Then the most interesting review, also from Demianchuk’s game. It looks like one of those standard top-of-foot-to-head high kicks that (for better or for worse) has been pretty consistently interpreted as a yellow card, historically. In his analysis before recommending the review, Guardia notes “we talked about this before this game,” emphasizing that the fouling player did not win the ball. Ultimately, Demianchuk stuck with his call. Barkey’s statement (read verbatim from The Definitive Angle) about this play seemed to leave some ambiguity about the correctness of the recommendation: there were “a mix of considerations”, but “A red card for serious foul play was the preferred outcome.” It sounds like maybe PRO as given recent instruction / emphasis on these plays?

    Finally, one review wasn’t shown in the video, also from the same game. The VAR recommended a review for an offside that was very obviously not in the APP (the defending team had a clean spell of possession afterwards). Thankfully, the crew realized in time that that offside was not reviewable, and the goal was awarded. The AR had a great onside decision on the final pass that did lead to a goal, by the way.
     
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  19. gaolin

    gaolin Member

    Apr 21, 2019
    Help me out here. A freekick is about to take place. Referee stops freekick and game to address two players jostling in the box.

    Then the whistle sounds again restart ceremonial freekick. They jostle again and red goes down and yellow player gets a caution. But the restart is still the freekick? I can't seem to find it in the Laws of the Game where this ruling comes in to play.

    https://streamja.com/WbqGE
     
  20. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    Law 12, section 4
     
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  21. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    The ball was never in play. The restart cannot change based upon something that happens while the ball is not in play.

    “If the ball is out of play, play is restarted according to the previous decision.”
     
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  22. gaolin

    gaolin Member

    Apr 21, 2019
    For some reason I thought the ball in play was when the official whistled the play to begin and not when the ball clearly moves.

    Going to get some sleep.
     
  23. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Thank you for posting this to induce the rage of professional players and commentators not knowing the basic fact that a ball not in play can't be a foul. And these are the people who criticize decisions.

    People answered above and very important to remember for all restarts. Ex. when kicking off, players running into the circle/half or defenders moving forward in a wall on a FK just because you blew the whistle, stop them and reset the restart. But of course there's also you blowing the whistle and them deliberately delaying taking the kick, which you then caution for DR.
     
  24. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    And what are the narrow few examples on when a restart can change without the ball having been in play? (The answer used to be zero real ones and one trick one . . .)
     
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  25. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    2nd minute DOGSO red card by Joshua Encarnation in the MLS Next Pro Conference Semifinak between Colorado and San Jose. Excellent decision.
     
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