2023 USL/NWSL/USOC/MLS Next Referee Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by gaolin, Mar 7, 2023.

  1. gaolin

    gaolin Member

    Apr 21, 2019
  2. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Gao you said you will watch USL with a pass, will you be able to get clips of these games? These are even more at our levels
     
  3. gaolin

    gaolin Member

    Apr 21, 2019
    I sure can. Will keep an eye out for the KMIs and whatnot this year. Also will be watching US Open Cup and post the match incidents like last year as well.
     
    MetroFever repped this.
  4. USSF REF

    USSF REF Member+

    Eintract Frankfurt
    United States
    Nov 6, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  5. gaolin

    gaolin Member

    Apr 21, 2019
  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The good is that he recognizes the need to caution the other player here. This is one of those situations where an act that otherwise need not be cautioned must be cautioned because of what it prompts. Too many referees wouldn’t see that.

    The bad, in my opinion, is he thinks that warrants delaying the showing of the red so the cards can be sequential. It created a false sense of security for the sent off player and his team and made it appear that maybe the referee wasn’t sure. And all that ultimately led to more dissent. Referee was looking straight at VC directly in front of him. If it’s VC and needs a red, pull it. Show everyone you’re acting decisively. There’s a time for deliberation. There’s a time for rigid process. This case didn’t fit either of those times.
     
  7. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Absolutely. Great coincidence, this is exactly what happened to me in a game yesterday. Hothead Player A (already on a YC) gets fouled with a simple hold facing away from goal turns around and harshly pushes the fouler. Player B runs over and violently two arm shoves Player A at the shoulders down to the ground. I immediately show VC RC to Player B and immediately take out my YC as well, waiting to issue it to Player A because he is on the ground. Player B's team surrounding me asking about him pushing, am I going to let him get away with that, etc. I ask them if they see the YC in my hand, and that I'm waiting to issue it to him to not give it to a downed player.

    On it's own I probably wouldn't have yellow carded Player A, just a talking to to be wary of retaliation. But I knew all hell breaks loose if I let Player B get a VC RC for retaliating against Player A's egregious actions and Player A ends up with nothing. End result is opposing RCs.

    The slow card pull for misconduct is something I see happen quite often at all these levels and it puzzles me. Not necessarily RC stuff, but even clear reckless YC offenses where the fouled player is down and the referee decides to wait around, checking on the fouled player, letting the player's teammates start surrounding him thinking he isn't going to penalize the foul before he finally issues it. It does the referee no favors. One team thinks he can't see a clear YC, the other thinks he's letting the first team convince him to give one.

    I'm not sure if this practice is taught by PRO or similar high level associations and that the thought process behind it is just beyond my understanding. But I've also seen people here talk about keeping two YCs with them, one in their shorts pocket for quick access, another in a wallet in a pocket to issue more slowly. I don't really understand the point of the latter besides DOGSO/SFP where you can get AR input to upgrade/downgrade.

    But above all else, when will players learn to STOP RETALIATING because more often than not they get more punishment.
     
  8. gaolin

    gaolin Member

    Apr 21, 2019
    One more red card incident in the 90+2 of the last match of the opening match week.

    https://streamja.com/RJlLX

    Same thing happening here. Player gets hit in the shoulder/biceps but grabs face.

    **This game had two reds. Player entered in the 86, got a yellow in the 89th for UB, and another yellow in the 90+4 as well for another UB.
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In the video you posted, doesn’t #4 execute the scissors kick and then chest bump or push a different opponent? Seems like there’s a pretty straightforward case for a send off here and it’s not just for the second part of it--if you are suggesting it was just for the second part (and consequently VC).

    EDIT: sorry, I guess you're actually talking about the kick going to the biceps/shoulders and the player grabs face, right? Either way... this seems like an easy 2CT rather than SFP or VC... do we know how it was written up?
     
  10. gaolin

    gaolin Member

    Apr 21, 2019
    Good eye! I went back and the report states he was sent off for VC. [1] He wasn't on a yellow before.

    [1] https://www.uslchampionship.com/riograndevalleyfc-lasvegaslightsfc-2342644
     
  11. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #11 MassachusettsRef, Mar 13, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2023
    Standard caveat/disclaimer that what you see on a league website isn't necessarily (and usually Isn't) reflective of the actual match report. Not saying he didn't show a straight red for VC, but I'd be surprised. Looks like the yellow was already out for the reckless scissors kick. Whether he showed two yellows and a red or just a red is unknowable based on the video, but I'm pretty sure the send off was for the totality of the actions.
     
  12. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Also the opponent in the background waving his arm in the air and shoulder shrugging makes it seem like he’s saying “that’s a second caution, so you get sent off of course”
     
  13. gaolin

    gaolin Member

    Apr 21, 2019
    Can confirm that it was two yellows on the challenge and chest bump. Talked to the ref himself since I realized I followed him on Instagram (he and I shared a lot of mutual followers) and just asked him for clarification.
     
    StarTime and MassachusettsRef repped this.
  14. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That makes more sense. Even if the scissor kick was a straight red, it would have been for SFP as it was a play (however ill-advised) on the ball. VC would have been an improper description of that particular send off.
     
    StarTime repped this.
  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know the full story yet, so I am somewhat hesitant to highlight this but it's out there publicly, so might as well...

    Sergii Boiko (or Serhiy Boyko, depending upon which spelling you use) a FIFA referee from Ukraine, is assigned to the USL Championship this weekend with a whistle in Memphis:

    https://proreferees.com/2023/03/14/2023-usl-championship-assignments-week-2/

    My understanding is that this not a one-off and more assignments have been made in the coming weeks.
     
    seattlebeach and frankieboylampard repped this.
  16. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    How was he able to leave Ukraine and escape the draft/conscription?

    All males of military age (which is now I think 18-60 at this point) are not able to leave the country.
     
  17. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    He may be an expat, there are several spellings of his name working in places outside Ukraine.
     
  18. gaolin

    gaolin Member

    Apr 21, 2019
    Only took 3 games for the USL League One to see its first red (for VC). It's between USL1 debutantes Knoxville v Lexington.

    https://streamja.com/60n3A
     
  19. the_phoenix612

    Manchester United
    United States
    Sep 13, 2022
    Houston, TX
    Oof he really got caught up in a pack of shoving players there. I get the instinct to arrive quickly and impose your presence but he really lost situational awareness for a good five seconds while holding that card as high as it goes.

    Glad he backpedaled out before he got tripped or pushed and made the situation worse.
     
    StarTime repped this.
  20. gaolin

    gaolin Member

    Apr 21, 2019
    frankieboylampard repped this.
  21. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    That first red card is 100% on the referee. I get it that a player can't put his hands on the referee, but the referee 100% invaded players personal space on an incident that was totally unnecessary.

    Every game has at least half a dozen plays where a defender shields the ball from an attacker as it goes over the goal line. Every now and then the attacker will leave a little bit in there as the ball goes out. It's a either a careless kick or an unnecessary shove. Nothing super serious. The defender might get upset to an extent and maybe push back a little bit.

    All is needed is a quick word or admonishing of the attacker and everyone moves on. There is zero need to go in there and just do a full sprint like you're preventing a fight.

    These are professional players they have some semblance of control.

    Just poor refereeing.

    Don't even get me started on whatever the hell that mass confrontation was in the USL League One mstch.
     
    AremRed, seattlebeach, StarTime and 3 others repped this.
  22. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The 33’ is mistaken identity, right? Or am I missing some contact?

    Also tend to agree with the announcers at 67’, which is a rarity.
     
  23. gaolin

    gaolin Member

    Apr 21, 2019
    On 00:22 on that video before he crossed the other San Antonio player. I think? Not seeing much. If anything, just a trifling trip. Definitely not a card.
     
  24. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    The 33’ one is #96 who fouled the Charleston Player. There was contact prior, player takes a couple of steps and then he falls down and goes back to the initial contact for UB.
     
    AremRed, MassachusettsRef and StarTime repped this.
  25. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ah got it. I see it now.

    Those are a lot of steps after the contact but, yeah, I see the clear deliberate foul now. Sorry about that.
     
    frankieboylampard repped this.

Share This Page