2023 SheBelieves tournament

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by lil_one, Dec 9, 2022.

  1. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    I watched it live in HBO Max-- but it was a little tricky to start-- they really wanted me to watch some series...
     
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  2. ytrs

    ytrs Member+

    Jan 24, 2018
    Mia Fishel played average to poorly with the U23’s against France this morning. She continuously turned over her passes, and was otherwise unproductive. She also flopped and whined on the pitch when she was fouled. Her last year at UCLA she wasn’t even her teams best forward. Reilyn Turner was.
     
  3. ytrs

    ytrs Member+

    Jan 24, 2018
    The midfield was very good the second game in New Zealand when Rose was playing the 8, and Horan was on a plane to France. Don't put this on Rose. She is the best midfielder on the team.

    Naeher is definitely our starter in goal. She is so much steadier back there than Murphy right now. Her save was fantastic.
     
  4. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    I'm a Rose fan.

    But, seriously, you're comparing the NZ B team to this Canada team?
     
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  5. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    And it wasn't close
     
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  6. Klingo3034

    Klingo3034 Member+

    Dallas FC
    United States
    Oct 11, 2019
    What was the score?
     
  7. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #82 hotjam2, Feb 18, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2023
    the CBA problems could of sway heavily on their minds, but they are professionals too, but the bigger issue might of been that their Euro contingent just flew in & missed their training camp(only Horan would of been in the same situation).
    On paper; starters Beckie, Fleming, Huitema, Giles Leon have so far rather underwhelming, Euro club careers. Their NWSL contingent can’t measure up to the US’s 1st & 2nd NWSL’s all-star picks. Only Lawrence, Buchanan & possibly Gk Sheridan stick out
    They’re the only woso power without its own pro(or semi pro) league, so they do miss an identidy to say the least. Theur usually only at their best when they got a chance to gather their players(from the various clubs around the world) and get together for month long training session(and formulate their own version)before an major upcoming summer tournament(apparently they love the Olympics more than the World Cup!)
     
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  8. ytrs

    ytrs Member+

    Jan 24, 2018
    No I am not comparing those two teams. I was making a point of how ridiculous that comment was. To take one game where the midfield really clicked and say maybe it was because Rose was injured is absurd. Rose is arguably the best player on our team and one of the best in the world. To say she is a liability is unbelievable.

    But I could argue that our midfield did not click on the first game against New Zealand B team but did the second game. So do we blame Horan for that, since she did not play game 2?
     
  9. ytrs

    ytrs Member+

    Jan 24, 2018
    2-0
    Alyssa Thompson and Michelle Cooper scored
     
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  10. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #85 cpthomas, Feb 18, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2023
    Um, to quote you from the New Zealand camp thread: "Everything was better in game 2 without Morgan and Horan. I hope it makes Vlatko take notice."

    Perhaps the better thought might be to have Horan, Sullivan, and Lavelle all on the field (and Sanchez not), with Lavelle playing farther up the field. I like her farther up the field anyway, with more of a scoring than playmaker focus (but not completely negating a playmaker role), with Horan and Sullivan playing as they did against Canada. That lets the three of them do what they do best and makes lack of recovery speed not as much of an issue for Horan.
     
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  11. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    I would. I tend to think Horan is the week link in the MF. But, she was really good vs. CAN.

    And, I know, it kind of ruins your fun, but I NOT say anything definitive about Rose. I basically said "something to think about." As for Rose, she is a damn good player, but she does dribble into cul-de-sacs.
     
  12. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lavelle is a player we all adore, but it's worth asking sometimes about chemistry and balance in a midfield. Some reader at Equalizer made a fair point on how Horan was "odd man out" when it was Ertz/Mewis (Sam)/ Lavelle; the point being that Ertz/Mewis/Lavelle just worked better than Ertz/Horan/Lavelle (or Ertz/Mewis/Horan), not a slight on Horan's qualities.

    Well, neither Ertz nor Sam Mewis are around these days so it becomes fair (among more analytical fans) to ask whether Horan or Lavelle work better with the remaining midfielders to choose from — an especially fair question after Horan AND Sullivan looked so good without Lavelle against Canada (keeping in mind we don't know just how badly affected Canada's performance was after all the drama with their stoopid Federation last week)

    There are also those who say Lavelle has proven she can play well without Horan (while claiming Horan hasn't proven she can play without Lavelle), so Horan either has to adjust to Lavelle or else... I don't know if they're going back to the 2019 World Cup, but they can't be thinking about, say, last year. For the heck of it, I added up the playing time of Lavelle, Horan, and Sullivan for the US in 2022 and Lavelle and Horan were almost always on the pitch at the same time.

    2022 minutes with the US (excluding the Uzbekistan games just because I said, Why bother?)

    Lavelle 996 minutes
    Horan 935
    Sullivan 991

    Lavelle and Horan were on the field together for 827 minutes. That's 83% of Lavelle's minutes and 88.4% of Horan's

    Lavelle/Horan/Sullivan were on the field together for 586 minutes, not as much as I would've guessed. That's 58.9% of Lavelle's minutes and 62.7% of Horan's

    Horan and Sullivan were on the field together without Lavelle for only 72 minutes. Until Thursday's games, the only time Horan and Sullivan played significant minutes together in the last year with someone besides Lavelle was the group stage match against Mexico in Olympics qualifying. I didn't see it but I believe it was a rather uninspiring 1-0 victory.

    So maybe Vlatko wasn't thrilled with the Horan-Sullivan pairing (without Lavelle) based on the Mexico game. I don't know. But Horan and Sullivan sure seemed unleashed on Thursday even though Ashley Sanchez didn't do all that much after cracking one shot on goal early on. Sanchez is a really promising young player but I think, right now, there are better possible pairings with Horan and Sullivan.

    ***
    Lavelle/Horan/Sullivan is not an unreasonable midfield trio for Vlatko to select, as long as he finds ways to tweak it (such as not leaving Sullivan on an island the way you could with Ertz).

    And I'm not an expert, but doing what fans do ("Play this guy! Play that guy!") I am curious to know how a Crystal Dunn/Horan/Sullivan trio would do, or a Kristie Mewis/Horan/Sullivan trio (which happened for a while in the 2nd half on Thursday)
     
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  13. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Most interesting thing I see is that in the Vlatko and Crystal comments about her as a left back as compared to mid-field, he appears to see his best mid-field as Lavelle, Horan, and Macario. In other words, he appears to see Macario as being ready when World Cup time comes -- and being ready to be part of the regular rotation.
     
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  14. 2233soccer

    2233soccer Member

    United States
    Sep 13, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    for the U23 game, not sure why they counted that first goal. Nothing against AT but she looked like she was about 10 feet offside and the AR was miles behind - more about in line with the midfielders. MC's goal and connecting with Byars was a terrific combination.
     
  15. ytrs

    ytrs Member+

    Jan 24, 2018
    Yes and NZ to NZ comparison is a direct comparison. We were much better in game 2. Horan plays too slow for me. Against a weak opponent who sits in you need to move the ball quickly. And, while I am not a fan of Horan’s playing style, I admit she played well against Canada. I believed your preferred midfield is what Vlatko sees too. The reason Sanchez started the last two game was because Horan and the Rose were unavailable.
     
  16. ytrs

    ytrs Member+

    Jan 24, 2018
    I would argue you are misreading his quote a bit. Dunn caused a disruption today with her complete Diva attitude. According to the media Vlatko took a firm stance on it today, saying that if she was in the midfield she would need to compete with the three you mentioned. That is because she wants to be a 10. Vlatko to me is saying that there are at least three 10’s ahead of you Dunn so take a seat. This was how I read it. The three you mentioned would never be our midfield together because there is no 6 in that group.

    Notably Dunn is backpedaling today so she was obviously dealt with by Vlatko, her teammates or both.
     
  17. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I only have seen the Crystal statement from today. Is there a previous one you are referring to? I would like to see what she said.
     
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  18. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #93 kolabear, Feb 18, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2023
    Oh yeah, the uppity black girl was put in her place by her master. Horse-pucky
     
  19. ytrs

    ytrs Member+

    Jan 24, 2018
    C’mon her behavior is totally Diva. She is causing division in her team, basically saying she is better than her midfield teammates. She is lucky to be getting minutes that she is. She isn’t in form yet but he is giving her every opportunity to get there. I am going to assume that you did not read the ridiculous article that reads like her publicist wrote it. I am going to grab it and will post it. Note the journalist (aka Dunn publicist) mentions Yates report and abuse in NWSL but completely ignores Dunn’s husband’s misconduct and firing.
     
  20. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That part caught my eye as well although I didn't interpret it to mean that was his expected midfield trio (yet, who knows with Vlatko?). Neither though does it make sense to say there are 3 others ahead of Dunn on the depth chart for a single position, the #10, because obviously Lavelle and Horan right now wind up playing on the pitch at the same time. I saw it more as 3 players for the 2 attacking midfield spots, but... who knows with Vlatko? He's used Horan as the #6 before and maybe he can't resist the temptation to play his 3 preferred midfielders at the same time.

    The significant thing to me was his inclusion of Macario as a midfielder at all rather than as a forward, when it seemed everyone's assumption that Vlatko would employ Macario as a forward when she returned from injury, a false 9. In Macario's last five games for the US, played in 2022 before suffering her ACL injury, she played as a forward, not a midfielder (at least so it seems from the box score). So why is Vlatko referring to Macario as a midfielder for the US now?!!

    It sounds like bull-pucky, a phony argument as to why Dunn should be grateful to play left back.
     
  21. ytrs

    ytrs Member+

    Jan 24, 2018
  22. ytrs

    ytrs Member+

    Jan 24, 2018
    You are reading too much into Macario inclusion. She is capable of playing the 9 or 10. Even Vlatko doesn’t know where she will play as he has to see how she responds to her injury. Dunn is whining in that article because she doesn’t get to score goals. She wants to be in the attack. So he fired off three obvious attacking players who are perceived to be clear starters. He said there is a lot of competition in the midfield. His way of saying you are not beating out players like those three. Dunn also lied about herself being the only one who has to change positions. FFS how old is she? She even cried in the interview. Huerta, Korniek, O’Hara, Rapinoe, Lloyd, Sonnet for starters all have been moved to different positions at the national team level.
     
  23. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Sounds like invented conflict to me. Tempest in a teapot-- only more like a waterspout and a teacup...
     
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  24. ytrs

    ytrs Member+

    Jan 24, 2018
    If you have ever coached or been in a team you can see how her comments would cause distraction in the team. How many people would give their left arm to make the national team. Yet she complains she doesn’t get to choose her position. She is not the coach. That is a coach’s decision. She takes her complaints to the media instead of in-house. So coach has to handle press questions about the diva.

    On another note, Australia is up 2-0 on Spain 20 minutes into the game. Australia looks sharp.
     
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  25. Klingo3034

    Klingo3034 Member+

    Dallas FC
    United States
    Oct 11, 2019
    No she was not offside, the French defender in the far back made her still onside. And you underestimate her speed to make it look offside when she starts running and the ball is being passed.
     

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