Hi everyone, There's no pressing need to discuss this at the moment - we're still a year away from even having the draw for the play-in tournament, the Concacaf Nations League. But there is a strange coincidence at hand: Qatar have committed to participating... but they're an AFC member and defending continental champion, and the 2023 Asian Cup will run from June 16 to July 16 (h/t to @Nico Limmat for the find). And there's no way for Concacaf to avoid the overlap - AFAIK the Gold Cup's never before spilled into August, and doing so now would run the risk of players preferring to return to their clubs for preseason rather than finish out the tournament (imagine the embarrassment if Davies, Lozano and Pulisic peace out midway through). So what's the plan? Does Qatar send a B-team? Or simply opt out and pay an indemnity?
I think both parties will work something out for an amicable withdrawl Neither side benefits by sending a B team to the "real" Gold Cup cycle
They should consider changing the format to a 12 team knockout. The group stage is not engaging or exciting at all because the quality of the region is so low outside of the top 3 or 4 countries. Even if you invite outsiders like Qatar or Australia to participate, it's really a snoozefest. It would also help MLS, which sees teams (generally its better ones) lose players for nearly a month of the season
I disagree this new format will only help the regions middle tier teams that for most of the time I have been watching get the short end of the stick to accommodate a México USA final. This tournament is helping El Salvador a lot if it was just a ko we would get maybe two games then be out. The region has over the past decade improved at the middle of the pack quite a bit and with Mexico and the USA not looking as dominant as in the past things could be looking more competitive moving forward. I am going to guess you haven’t followed the gold cup for very long or just focus on the USA The MLS’s decision to ignore the international schedule will mean it will regularly have to deal with losing players but they are among the only leagues in the world that make that choice so it really isn’t something taken into account at the international level
The main change, if any, is to move to to a 2 NL/1 Gold Cup cycle... but if Concacaf insists that the biennial Gold Cup pays the bills, then the only realistic way to wean ourselves off it is with another cash cow (looks longingly at Pan-Am collaboration )
Make it legged home and home for the first two rounds of losing a couple games is a big deal. I don’t think it is. I’ve followed the Gold Cup for 20 years. The US and Mexico dominate for the most part as they always have. Costa Rica and Jamaica have made strides as a couple others have but there’s as much interest in watching Haiti, Martinique, Grenada, etc. as watching San Marino or Luxembourg. Most countries with bad winters play spring to fall or take a winter break. MLS doesn’t “ignore” the international calendar, it simply makes no sense for the league to follow it.
Have no idea what Haiti did to get bunched up with the others... 3 knockout-round participations in its last 5 Gold Cup appearances (and the other two getting frustrated by dodgy refereeing against El Salvador in 2013 and a COVID outbreak this year) suggest Haiti does more than just make up the numbers, if competing for the title remains beyond us. Most countries don't take 4-month winter breaks.
If CONMEBOL would agree, I think it would be the perfect opportunity to try a 20 team tournament with 4 groups of 5, top 2 from each make the final 8. I hate 24 team tournaments with only 8 teams eliminated after group play. Another option might be to take only the top 2 from each group for 12 making the knockout rounds, with the top 4 group winners getting byes. Either way, it would be great to try something new in such a tournament.
you have watched it for 20 years and think this version isn’t interesting? The Qatar Panama game was interesting to watch as neutral. Mexico and El Salvador haven’t played a game like that in a gold cup ever. You may have no interest in Haiti for some reason but they generally have good runs. You may not think losing a few games is a big deal but for mid tier programs it is. This has helped countries have meaningful games, test players etc. Besides the reason the gold cup is always in the USA is because it is concacafs cash cow. It would be great if it took place in other countries but there is literally zero incentive for anyone to make this a home and home ko tournament. You would essentially be recreating the NL which would be redundant
Small island country with very limited success. Their escaping the group stage only serves to prove the current tournament is not sufficiently difficult. Haiti is a bad team. No they don’t, because it makes more sense to play spring to fall.
There are occasional games that are interesting but the event as a whole is not until the knockout stage. It would be best if the group stage was eliminated all-together. Losing a couple of games is not significant to anyone. You’re completely overstating the importance. Most of the money comes from TV rights; attendance generally blows until the knockout and even then there’s no guarantee of anything. Moving to a home and home format would likely create better atmospheres for the games which helps boost intrigue for TV viewers and the event as a whole. Also a knockout tournament would not be like the Nations League.
??? Good luck finding another league that plays spring to fall (e.g. northern Europe, South America) that also has a 4-month break. The one thing you're completely skipping here is that a traditional tourney structure (group stage --> knockout round) is far more cost-effective than including home-and-away rounds, as travel in our region is expensive - so much so that Concacaf regularly offers a grant to away teams in CCL and WCQ ($50k last I heard). For a fun example, look up how much it costs to fly from Honduras to Grenada...
The Gold Cup also seems incredibly more redundant now that we have the Nations League too. There is a strong possibility the final 4 of the Gold Cup will be the same final 4 the Nations League saw The Gold Cup is basically Tiers 1,2,3 and 4 of Concacaf while Nations League A is just 1, 2, and 3 If Honduras and Panama both win tomorrow we are looking at the WCQ8 being the 8 QFists. I get CONCACAF needs to pay the bills but their is going to be a law of diminishing returns
The Swedish and Norwegian leagues both play late March/ early April to early November, same as MLS. I’m not skipping anything. The cost of flying to America and housing 16 teams - then usually flying them again across the country - is not likely to be significantly more or less cost effective than flying 12 teams around and giving them all a home game. Most teams are not going to be Grenada.
Here is another idea. Why not turn the 2023 Gold Cup into a U23+3 Olympic Qualifying Tournament for the 2024 Olympics. The current Olympic Qualifying tournaments cannot be that much of a profit generator so you can axe them and and give one of the Gold Cups a bit of purpose. If you're going to have 2 Gold Cups, make 1 for Olympic Qualifying with U23 teams+3 teams to try and eliminate redundancy and give it purpose
We haven't really seen it play out, yet... but if Montagliani's intention is to have 2 NLs and 2 Gold Cups in the next WC cycle, we might finally reach the point of USSoccer and especially the FMF saying enough is enough and demanding either fewer Concacaf competitions or more int'l ones, i.e. reaching out to Conmebol. Fair enough - so that's 3 leagues in all of world football that go into hibernation. No reason any confederation would adjust their competition schedules to accommodate the outliers. Flying across the US is significantly cheaper than flying within the Caribbean, or b/w the Caribbean and Central America. Add the gap in ticket revenue (e.g. the Orlando games in this Gold Cup have an average ticket cost of $60, while $40 will get you the best seat in the house in Panama), and Concacaf makes way more by playing out the current format here.
If the European leagues were the EPL, La Liga, Seria A, and the Bundesliga, there would be concessions made. MLS is the second biggest league in CONCACAF, CONCACAF uses its cities and stadiums to host the tournament, and should be taken into consideration. Tickets are two-match passes for the first two rounds of the group stage. That would not be the case in this hypothetical. Even for the US team, it wasn't until the match against Canada that they drew a sellout in Kansas City. Low attendance is a bad look - it looks bad to TV networks, it looks bad to advertisers, and it looks bad to sports fans who tune in and wonder if anyone cares about the event. Having home matches in the first couple of rounds would likely produce better attendance. Even if the tickets are $30 a game, they'll make more money while curating a better experience for everyone. Travel and room costs for the current Gold Cup format is likely ~$2-2.5m. The knockout format could be about $500k cheaper. The only "negative" is 4 fewer teams, but we're talking about pretty abysmal teams that get run over.
You say as if MLS doesn't directly see profit from the Gold Cup through SUM (although I don't know if that relationship currently remains in place). ...did you watch the last Gold Cup? Costa Rica's group had much better attendance in Harrison, NJ than in San José. Please show your work.
Turn Pre Olympic Gold Cup into Olympic Qualifying tournament Turn Post Olympic Gold Cup into Copa America Qualifying tournament Turn Copa America into a combined CONCACAF/CONMEBOL tournament
The agreement runs through the end of 2021. Either way, the SUM money is the SUM money. You're cherry picking and comparing two-match days to what would be a one-match day. Costa Rica played in front of a legit 19.1k in San Jose. Then 7k in Dallas. Then "20k" in NJ (I'd wager more like 15k). That same day in NJ, Nicaragua and Bermuda played in front of what looked like a friends and family only crowd (but was still reported as "20k"). Now imagine if the game had been played in Nicaragua. Maybe 20k would have actually been there. OK.
I was all for expanding to 16 teams. There is a historical drop-off after the top 10 -11 teams though (and Haiti definitely shouldn't be compared with Grenada), so I understand the viewpoint that the 'quality' isn't there to do this/the group stage isn't as exciting since the top seeds mostly advance. However, given the gaps in talent, there haven't really been many blowouts - the minnows have mostly played respectably. And you're never going to get the exciting group stage or upsets if you don't give those teams the opportunity to play for the upset and advance. I say give the 16 team format another tournament or two before making up your mind.
There are 41 countries in CONCACAF, so I don't think having 16 teams qualify for the Gold Cup is so outrageous. This year, Martinique and Grenada look like the teams that were overmatched by their opponents, but in the past, Martinique have proven to be a formidable team to face. I'd like to see the Gold Cup stay with a 16-team lineup. Regional heavyweights (Mexico, USA, Honduras, Costa Rica) have not been excessively dominant in every match so far, and I think that's good for the region. Sure, the more successful teams may not have brought their very best players to this competition, but it's nice to see lesser sides have a chance to showcase their talent, which could land them a contract with a pro team somewhere in the world. Eloy Room played well enough for an unheralded Curacao team, that he ended up going to MLS and winning an MLS Cup for his Columbus Crew squad.
I like the 16-team Gold Cup too. It gives the lower level teams in CONCACAF who are not likely to get to the finals round of WCQ much less the WC something to strive to accomplish
The bottom 4 teams have a combined 1 point and a -26 GD with one Grenada match left to go (curently down 1-0 in the 8th minute to Panama). While it might be feel-good to include these teams, they water down a tournament that really can't afford to put out a watered down product.