2023(24) Asian Cup

Discussion in 'AFC: Tournaments' started by almango, May 11, 2023.

  1. Fureeku

    Fureeku Member

    Feb 9, 2011
    Maldives
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Maldives
    This edition of the AFC Asian Cup was a bit of a wake up call for the big boys. No longer can they stroll along with their eyes closed and expect to win easily, even with the expanded format giving more unfancied sides a chance to run around a bit.

    The gaps between the Pot 3 sides and those at the top have decreased significantly, and a lot of credit must go to the joint World Cup/Asian Cup qualifiers, as well as the club licensing system.

    Reading some of the comments by fans of the traditionally bigger sides, I can sense an unwillingness to accept this fact. It's much easier to concoct conspiracy theories rather than accept the failures of your team, but I believe that a strong pot 3 and the emerging pot 4 teams will definitely help to improve the competitiveness of Asian football, which will in turn push the bigger sides to raise their games on the long run.
     
  2. Qatar

    Qatar Member

    Jan 24, 2016
    Are you RaminS? Or was that your troll account?

    Strange how you address my REPLY as unclassy yet ignore your crybaby compatriots.

    My engagement with you (or at least this account lol) was reciprocal, I even conceded to you a lot of what you have said.

    I will however have my fun with bitter losers thank you very much. :p
     
  3. Qatar

    Qatar Member

    Jan 24, 2016
    Anyway that final was relatively easy, Jordan was too nervous for this. They did have a good spell of 10 mins in the second half though.

    Happy for Afif he deserves the spotlight.

    2027 We go again. Forward and onward!
     
  4. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    I wanted to make you realize that you don't need to be 80 years old (or even 60) to have watched Iran win most of its 7 Asian championships. But you are right: I shouldn't have gotten in the middle of your discussion with RaminS. He handles those kind of discussions with you much better than me, even if I obviously don't agree with some of his points including about refereeing (which I have addressed and replied to implicitly).
     
  5. Qatar

    Qatar Member

    Jan 24, 2016
    #1230 Qatar, Feb 11, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2024
    Cool bro I appreciate your demeanor, even though you’re still wrong when you attempt to be fair.

    Like thinking Iran’s penalty vs Qatar can be considered. Just no bro:
    [​IMG]

    Kuwaiti ref succumbed to Irani players pressure and put on an amateur hour performance.
     
  6. Live_Football23

    Real Madrid
    Iraq
    Dec 7, 2020
    I don’t know what you’re arguing here because we pretty much agreed on everything. Imo, a penalty/red card are game changers, and should only be given on clear instances.

    The last 2 penalties were legit, but the first, although there was slight contact, I personally wouldn’t have given as the contact for me wasn’t enough to effect the play. Afif felt the slight contact and dived to draw a penalty, he could have absolutely kept that play going.

    For the Iran game, again, the hand was clearly trying to protect his face, it was a defensive position. If he didn’t raise his hand to protect himself, the ball would have hit his face, it wasn’t a shot that was going to goal. Again, by the book it’s probably a penalty, but common sense, especially with VAR, has to understand the situation.

    I won’t comment on the Aymen red as at best that was inconsistent officiating, and imo it was the worst officiating error in the tournament, and it’s been talked about enough.
     
  7. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    I think I read your opening line " I actually think the opposite..." perhaps too literally.
     
  8. Live_Football23

    Real Madrid
    Iraq
    Dec 7, 2020
    No worries, perhaps my opening line came off a bit strong haha.
     
  9. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    I would not have given the penalty. The guidance on reflex move of the hand you cited could be interpreted as making this a reflex reaction. But here the Qatari defender first moves quickly in the direction to block the shot while putting his hand to the face. That movement wasn't just the reflexive covering of the face. And the penalty wasn't the referee's initial decision but recommended by the VAR crew. Do you think the VAR crew also "succumbed to Irani players pressure"? Remember: VAR also intervened to turn the referee's decision to give Iran's Khalilzadeh a yellow to a red card. Right call by the book perhaps but not absolutely necessary.

    Both VAR and referee ignored a couple of other calls earlier when Iran was up 1:0 that could have had a huge impact in favor of Iran. If they felt any pressure based on gripes by Iran about a Kuwaiti referee whistling the match, they didn't show it in those instances.

    But since you are critical of the Kuwaiti referee, it seems you vindicate concerns by Iran's coach and players about his appointment. That appointment was a poor decision by the AFC for similar reasons why I mentioned to @almango that Faghani (Australian-Iranian referee) hypothetically whistling an Iran game wouldn't be right or fair to Faghani -- never mind the stress and unnecessary suspicion it would cause for the other side even if Faghani would be overcompensating and was even favoring them.
     
  10. Qatar

    Qatar Member

    Jan 24, 2016
    That’s a bad limited replay, do you know why the Qatari player initially had his hands around his head in the first place? He was elbowed to the head by an Iranian player in the air. So not is it only not a penalty by the rules, it’s a foul for Qatar! But everyone and the refs included chose to ignore that.

    Huge decision impact when it was 1:0? Like what? There was no big incident except when the Qatari defender took the ball off Taremi. Nothing to look at there except for an adamant iranian fan with a narrative.

    Even Azmoun who was right next to them couldn’t complain, and boy is he one to complain on the slightest perceived misjudgment.

    Yes the ref sucks and he shouldn’t have been appointed, but the comments were child’s play and he was heavily influential AGAINST Qatar.

    Some fans just couldn’t bear losing WHILE having the calls going their way. It was a double whammy.
     
  11. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    #1236 Iranian Monitor, Feb 11, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2024
    I have said what needed to be said about the referee issue. But let me tell you my concerns about a team like Qatar beating Iran and then becoming Asian champions:
    1. As a fan of Iran, I don't find our football culture conducive to suffering any loss without those waiting in the wings for any slip up (people who have actually been proven wrong repeatedly) resurfacing to force their wrong remedies and destructive criticisms on our team. Otherwise, objectively, when the tournament started our odds to win the championship were under 12%. We did well enough finishing semifinalist even if Qatar wasn't the side we expected to lose to. Still, unlike others, no team that faced Iran outplayed or was better than Iran. Even Qatar, which had a couple of stats in its favor, still was outshot by Iran 23-15; we had 59% possession compared to 41% for Qatar; and had 12 corners compared to 1 for Qatar.
    2. I hope (honestly) Qatar carries the mantle of "Asian champions" better than it did last time. It is embarrassing for the AFC as a whole when its "champion" gets the results Qatar was getting internationally across the board between 2021-23 especially. It makes the whole confederation look weak. (To me Akram Afif is a genuinely talented player and Moez Ali is alright. But Qatar has 3-4 players who can look decent enough internationally but the rest are pretty subpar and rubbish. So what happens if you lose Afif or his form drops again?)
     
  12. RaminS

    RaminS Member

    Dec 5, 2016
    In other words: Worst. Host performance. Ever. Even with the Brazilian, Portuguese, Sudanese, Algerian, Yemeni, Iraqi, Somalian, Bahraini and Uruguayan players wearing qatari jerseys.
     
  13. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Yes. But on composition of their team, remember: Qatar is a very small "country" with a population less than say Karaj. So I don't blame them pursuing the path they have taken. Overall, I'm glad they have been investing so heavily in football. And I give them credit for organizing both the World Cup and this Asian Cup in a way that made both tournaments memorable.
     
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  14. RaminS

    RaminS Member

    Dec 5, 2016
    Kuwait and the UAE are comparable and not only did they qualify for the World Cup but they did so without disguising foreigners as natives. The only time Qatar has been at the World Cup they didn't even have to qualify as they were the World Cup host who got raped the most.
     
  15. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    The AFC has given its awards. Here are mine:
    1. Best Team: Iran. Honorable mention: Jordan, Qatar, Iraq.
    2. Most Valuable Player: Akram Afif (Qatar). Honorable mention: Mousa Al Tamari (Jordan), Son Heung Min (S. Korea).
    3. Best Coach: Hussein Amouta (Moroccan-Jordan). Honorable mention: Tintin Marquez (Spanish-Qatar), Amir Ghalenoi (Iranian-Iran)
    4. Best Goalkeeper: Mathew Ryan (Australia). Honorable mention: Meshaal Bersham (Qatar).
    5. Most Improved Team: Tajikistan. Honorable mention: Jordan, Iraq.
    6. Best Match: Iran 2 Japan 1. Honorable mention: S. Korea 1 (4) Saudi Arabia 1 (2), Qatar 3 Iran 2
    7. Biggest Flop (Team): China. Not so honorable mention: Japan, UAE, Vietnam, S. Korea
    8. Biggest Flop (Coach): Jurgen Klinsmann (German-S. Korea). Not so honorable mention: Roberto Mancini (Italian-Saudi Arabia)
    9. Biggest Flop (Player): Hwang In-beom (S. Korea) . Not so honorable mention: Mehdi Taremi (Iran), Suzuki (Japan), Itakura (Japan).
    10. Most Disappointing Match by a favored side: Jordan 2 S. Korea 0. Honorable mention: Iran 1 Hong Kong 0, S. Korea 3 Malaysia 3.
     
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  16. Letmepost

    Letmepost Member

    Arsenal
    South Korea
    Apr 11, 2023
    I have not watched much of the other teams, but I personally thought Yazan Al-Naimat was very potent in the two games I've seen from him.

    However I do not know he he fared against the rest of the field, nor of his general level of play at club level.

    He was the player that frightened me the most out of the attacking players Korea faced, although Al-Taamari was good also.
     
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  17. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    #1242 Iranian Monitor, Feb 13, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2024
    Unlike so many Iranian fans, pundits and wannabe coaches, who have refused to give Iran's overall most successful coach (over several decades with nearly a dozen totally different Iranian teams -- Esteghlal, Mes Kerman, Sepahan, Zobe Ahan, Tractor, Gol Gohar, along with 2 stints as Iran NT coach etc) -- the credit he deserves, the main reason I am not even less optimistic looking into the future for Iran's football team is our coach. Everything else largely bodes poorly for Iran when I look ahead, as follows:
    1. Closing gap between teams in the AFC. Never mind a dozen or so 2nd and 3rd tier sides who will all be tough to beat for anyone in Asia if taken lightly (or Qatar, so long as Akram Afif and Moez Ali keep their rejuvenated form), you have 3 other Asian teams almost at the level of the top tier sides right now. Jordan, Iraq and Uzbekistan (especially once their top striker rejoins their squad after he returns from injury) are able to trouble and even beat anyone in Asia on their day.
    2. Transitioning to a younger squad without much experience. There are a lot of good, young, Iranian players but so far at least, with one possible exception (Sepahan's Mohammad Javad Hosseinnejad) none really stand out for me. None have the experience that young players from prior generations had, players like Mehdi Mahdavikia or Ali Karimi had when they already had won "Asian Young Player of the Year) awards and more.*
    3. Totally Toxic Football Culture. The internet and social media has made the footballing environment and culture very difficult for most teams and coaches, but this is magnified by a factor of 10 for Iran which simultaneously has to deal with campaigns by people behind the scenes who are determined to see Iran fail for their own misguided and sometimes outright treacherous political agendas.
    4. Sanctions, International Politics, and More. Nothing new but something that makes things harder as Iran tackles the full plate of issues it faces.
    The good news is that I see Iran still have the basic ingredients to have a very solid, by Asian standards, first rate squad up to the next World Cup. The aging players who will retire (Omid Ebrahimi, Shoja Khalilzadeh, Ehsan Haj Safi, Karim Ansarifard) added experience but were already either replaceable or somewhat marginal despite their overall fine showing in this Asian Cup. Mehdi Taremi has had a subpar (by his standards) year so far, but I believe that has had more to do with his mind being on transfer discussions and negotiations than either age (31) or a real lasting loss of form. I wish Sadegh Moharami a full and speedy recovery and the rest should be alright.

    *Iranian fans sing the praises of defenders like Hazbavi, but the matches I have seen from him he has committed the worst sin for a defender: too many unforced errors. He might be very talented, or might have good marketing agents, but as a reliable defender for Iran's national team he still has a way to go. Yasin Salmani, a midfielder who is currently injured, is more hopeful but also still not all that exceptional. Our most reliable youngsters, other than Hosseinnejad and perhaps a regroomed Sayyadmanesh for a winger position, were already on Iran's Asian Cup squad: besides Saman Fallah (a promising young defender), and Aria Yussefi (a potentially promising young fullback), the other 2 "Bushehri" (southern Iranian coastal city with its eclectic complexion) compatriots of Mehdi Taremi, namely Mehdi Ghaedi (a highly skilled and talented diminutive flank forward), Mohammad Mohebi (a fast, skilled, hardworking, physical, winger) were already in our Asian Cup roster Add Saleh Hardani, and a few others, most notably Omid Noorafkan, and the players who will be replacing the old guard will still have a lot to prove in a very short time.
     
  18. o_Oo_O
    :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
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    etc. etc.
     

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