Post-match: 2022 World Cup, USA-Iran

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Dr. Gamera, Nov 29, 2022.

  1. CeltTexan

    CeltTexan Member+

    Sep 21, 2000
    Houston, TX USA
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Proud of our team for advancing!
    Loved seeing our fans, that Elvis n Lady Liberty together in the stands was iconic.
    And just glad to once again get with lots of like minded Americans to enjoy what only a World Cup can and always delivers!!!
     
  2. adam tash

    adam tash BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    if berhalter hadnt already been fired for lack of offense in sweden.....

    had the team not struggled so mich to generate scoring chances....

    I might be able to hear what youre saying....

    USMNT in matches outside of the USA in the last year.. 11 matches 1 win 4 goals scored 10 goals conceded

    but yeah carry on...I dont know what im talking about.
     
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  3. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Shit that is so great! Speaks volumes about the team being a team. And also about the long hard road it's been for one Anglo-American dude who just played a big part in getting that team to the WC knockout rounds. :D:thumbsup::inlove:
     
  4. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Whoa, that was a work of ART! And the overhead view is what allowed me to see that.
     
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  5. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    @Iranian Monitor was/is a very good poster, but I actually think that most of the foreign posters have been pretty good. Of course a a few are trolls, but most add significant insight into aspects of their team that we don't have.
     
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  6. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1056 TrueCrew, Nov 30, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2022
    Agree in the main. I will say though I agree in general in Wright's energy level (he was doing The Altidore out there), he did have some OK moments. He had a fairly good run of using his body to maintain possession on a series of throw-ins. He had a moment where he almost picked the GKs pocket on pressure (the crowd ooohed noticeably). And he had one good sequence where he nutmegged a guy and created a good attack. In the 87th. Moore makes a run forward but cannot finish the play. I thought we were gonna score live watching.

    I'm not saying he was good. He wasn't. But aside from his dumb decision late in stoppage time, I did not see one horrid play. Just a general half-@ssing it.

    Aaronson was indeed good. And fairly obviously & quickly. I appreciate the acknowledgement. He created 3 good attacks in his first 3 minutes. Nutmegged a guy in the box. Drew a yellow with a very nice move on the left side. And that is just off the top of my head.

    I have rewatched, and despite my trepidation late, I seem to only recall one/two/three real chances. The header wide late after Musah's foul. The play where Dest got just enough and the guy headed it over.

    And the most obvious chance was the shot wide from Taremi around 65'. But I have a question. Would it have counted?

    CCV got stepped on as the play unfolded. The ref blew his whistle and came over to him. We made the Acosta for Wes sub. But the TV was showing replays and did not show the restart. Was it a GK or did he actually call the foul on CCV? A minor point, but does anyone know?
     
  7. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And, according to Ream, a work of art Berhalter designed.
     
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  8. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    You literally said we've never had a good coach.

    If you are not evaluating what a good coach is or not, why would you ever make that statement?

    It's funny, I think the guy is a pretty good coach. I don't think his performance here is how I'd judge bringing him back, aside from a horrific performance (which we haven't had). I do think if we make the semis or something, there's simply no way you can not give him the option from a PR / team standpoint, but that's a bridge to cross when you get there.

    I'm actually very opposed to second term coaches. I think 7-8 years is a really long time for a person to both motivate his players but also stay motivated on his end.

    My questions on rehiring Berhalter, if I were Earnie, though I'd probably have more:
    1. Do you think you will still be interested in this job in 4 years? Are you sure you can commit fully for four more years? Or would you rather help us with the job search and the U20 team and move on? Be honest with yourself.
    2. Do you think you can still motivate and push this group in four years? Will they still be listening?
    3. Tell me your plan for integrating and evaluating new talent going forward? How will that affect the current group and how will you manage some of them losing minutes and being phased out? What kind of bias do you see relative to that and how do you manage that? What mistakes have you made here in evaluation and how would you rectify them, in particular in terms of building depth while also winning and driving starter cohesion?
    4. There's been a clear struggle at times in terms of the execution of our offense. Was this communication, tactics, execution, etc? How do you approach each of these and help this team "click" by 2026?
    5. How are you going to fix set pieces?
    6. What additional resources do you need for 2026?
    Etc. etc.

    People portray Berhalter really weirdly. Yeah, he gets defensive at some questions, but he's the least arrogant coach we've had from his discussions with the players, the media, from the fact that he travels in his free time to learn from other coaches.

    I think you want to find out where Berhalter thinks he needs to improve and if he's going to chase it.

    Because he's built a really good culture that is very well suited to young American players. There's a massive subset of foreign coaches who are still the yell and do as I say type. This team isn't going to go for that and they aren't going to play for that. Not after Berhalter and not after their success. They aren't going to love JK mindgames, either -- Pulisic is just going to get Tuchel flashbacks.

    So understand, there's a big chunk of potential coaches who I simply do not think will work for 4 years.

    But I also seriously question whether Berhalter or the players are engaged after seven years as well. I think this is a harder question than people think because the alternative isn't known. People three years ago would have selected Tata Martino. Berhalter was a FAR better choice.

    People want Jesse Marsch now. He'd slip right into the culture, but if people think Berhalter is idiomatic and inflexible, whoo, just wait for Marsch! And I think he's an excellent coach. But tactically flexible the man is not.

    Yes, but I also don't know that we're going to agree on whatever the hell Berhalter ball is.

    Here's what I like about "Berhalter" ball:
    • I am a big fan of pressure defense and not sitting back. Berhalter started in a passive mid block 442 back in 2019. It was a disaster, and not just because Adams was injured. This team feeds off aggression and while we'll need to temper as we age, I am willing to be that's a national trait that stays more of less consistent.
    • We have positional play principles. These are generally flexible across formations and even styles of play at times, they are commonly used in club, and they translate to patterns of play that teams can use in possession. We've never really had a plan when we are in possession. It hasn't clicked for us completely, but it's an end state I'd like to see.
    • We started favoring possession too much and not driving enough in transition, but that's no longer true. We're a pretty direct team overall but we still control possession because of our midfield and counterpress.
    • We're prepared with gameplans to the opponent in almost every competitive match. People know what they need to do and how they work together.
    • He's suitably pragmatic with a lean to defense. I know fans hate this, and I do, too, at times, but I'd far rather build a bias to defense here than offense given that a) that is more effective against better teams where we will need to grind anyway and b) when we didn't qualify in 2018, the defense was utter crap.
    There's clear improvement areas for both the team and Berhalter in my mind, but I don't think you and I overlap.

    I think he's actually an above average tactician that we haven't seen the best of because of limited time with our players and some early struggles understanding how to communicate tactics to a national team. I think he definitely has some things to learn and change here but the biggest development our team needs is for our players to grow up a bit.

    I think he guards team culture more tightly than fans, is more risk averse than fans, favors defense more than fans, but that may be every coach ever.
     
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  9. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Wright's biggest issue was his lack of any pressure on the backline of Iran, allowing them to bomb in long passes with out anyone in the way.

    That and the complete whiff.
     
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  10. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    That was either a foul or offside or both.

    Their best shot was the 90-something minute header that went wide left.
     
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  11. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hard to imagine designing the whole thing. Maybe the last 2-3 moves?
     
  12. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess what I am pushing back on is the far too common BS trope that has many pisters saying he was "complete trash" or "completely useless."

    I said he was poor. Not going to the corner was dumb. And his Altidore act was awful.

    But he did have brighter moments (the nutmeg, the almost pick on the keeper). And some other guys had more egregious plays. Jedi had multiple egregious touches that killed attack. The play where Weah dribbled over the endline was horrid.
     
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  13. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nice view.

     
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  14. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's funny that you posted this immediately after @xbhaskarx posted the view from above of the goal (quoted below)---because as I watched that video, my first thought when Pulisic starts his final sprint is that the switch from McKennie to Dest was the pre-determined signal for him to make that run.

     
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  15. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Go read what Ream said.
     
  16. Pickles

    Pickles Member

    Jun 4, 2014
    Being a national team manager is akin to being a chef on one of those cooking shows where you're given a basket of ingredients and told to make a great dish from them. At a club team, the manager has some say in player recruitment, but when running a national team, you're just given the ingredients, and you don't have much control at all about how the bell pepper is grown.

    Personally, I could see why a coach might want to do something different after a World Cup cycle. With Marsch in the Premier League, it wouldn't shock me if Berhalter has his eyes on England. A coach with organization and defense as strong suits might be attractive to a number of clubs.
     
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  17. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hesitate to get involved in this, but I must. If we hadn't overthrown the democratically-elected President Mossadegh in 1953, and subsequently supported the re-installation and empowerment of the Shah, history might have been very different in that country and, indeed, the world.
     
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  18. adam tash

    adam tash BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i dont need a rubric to know if a coach is good or not....you can evaluate without being systematic...its really obvious, for the most part.
    okay, fair enough....actually a very good post that I agree with a lot of (wasn't expecting that, tbh)

    I actually think there are a lot of coaches that arent as good as berhalter, it's true. he's better than Tata, for one. There are worse alternatives out there for sure....but that isnt really enough. There are also better coaches out there too, no question about it.

    I'm quite surprised that you are against berhalter getting another term. I thought for sure you would jump at that. I think it would be a huge mistake, no matter the result in this WC.

    biggest reason: After 4 years, and no plan on offense, I just dont see it ever "clicking"...the not enough time excuse rings hollow for me. He's had a boatload of time to get it together and just doesn't have it in him, imo. and , to me, this is absolutely essential for this team...becuase it is so close and would take this team to the next level if and when it happens. If he did get re-hired, he should be required to hire an "offensive assistant guru" or someone like that bc he just doesnt get it.

    as for your questions to berhalter, I dont think you can take his answers at face value....he has shown that he will lie and lie very well with no qualms. He's scary good at lying and in that case his answers will still matter but can't be trusted...despite the fact that I agree he is very open and quite good with the media compared to other coaches - though a tad defensive.

    I agree on Marsch too....

    but the bottomline is there are coaches who could do a better job....they just have to be identified and hired. And yeah it is possible to get someone worse than berhalter...but that's just a risk that must be taken. He could always be re-hired as an emergency coach if all goes wrong.
     
  19. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I"d ask a question in response to your question: Do you actually enjoy watching Dest more at Barcelona or with the USMNT? Musah at Valencia or with USMNT? Adams at Leipzig or with USMNT? Weah with Lille or with USMNT?

    In those particular cases, I'd say they all play better for Berhalter than for club and, yes, I enjoy that immensely.
     
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  20. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ted Eck would like a word.Also Brek Shea.
     
  21. MayaDempsey

    MayaDempsey Member

    Jul 29, 2014
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Gio is somewhat like Pulisic defensively. He’s not a high effort defender but reads the game well enough to be somewhat effective anyway. See Champions League game in late October against Man City as an example.
     
  22. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To be quite honest, Berhalter has surprised me with the level of (good) gameplanning he's done against each opponent. He's been really fantastic in that aspect. His subs, not excited about. Sadly, I doubt that aspect will change--Gregg seems to really prefer certain stabilities in team shape it seems, and makes his subs based on that. But, the next game is a knockout game, and things change in those circumstances. I just don't know what the hell he'll do.

    And, on a different note, the team has been playing very exciting soccer--they have been so close so many times to putting attacks together. I can't help but think that they're capable of dropping a big scoreline on anyone in this tournament if only they can manage to get the last little bits right. They've been so, so close in each of the group games. So, painfully close. I really hope they can bring the last pieces together against the Dutch.
     
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  23. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We now have two versions...

    Original:


    With added commentary:
     
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  24. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    CCV got even worse for me on the re-watch. Heath Pearce FTW:

    - first half beaten over top and allows the man space to get a pass off in the box
    - on the cross that shaq moore made an emergency stop on, ccv hesitates to let the ball go by him
    - cross stopped by dest at the back post, ccv just bodies his man but doesn't play ball
    - lets attacker get half step on him and then comes thru him from behind. would have been a soft penalty, but if call was made live I doubt it'd have been over-turned
    - on the cross arob was beaten on initially, ccv doesn't cut it out and gambles to go to ground thus is not there to defend the shot
    - lost his man who would have score the game winner if not for Turner + Zimmerman

    These are just major errors. There's 6. Then there are many more moderate mistakes here I'm leaving out.

    He was a bull in a china shop, after getting moderately out of position. Really tested the ref. Should have been called for multiple fouls in the final 3rd.

    His passing was also pretty conservative, unless he was in the opponent half, in which case he'd just lay it off. Ironically, on the start of the would be 2nd goal for us, he put Turner under unnecessary pressure w/ a back pass, but Jorge Campos 2.0 just passed out of it.

    And you see people saying things like CCV was perfect, didn't put a foot wrong, was great, and should definitely start next match. Have these events apply to a # of our other CB options, and the assessment is it's a poor performance, maybe even that he was shambolic, and has got to come out of the lineup. You tell me where that comes from.
     
  25. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've missed you.We've missed you.1 million Iranian Americans miss you.
     
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