Post-match: 2022 World Cup, USA-Iran

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Dr. Gamera, Nov 29, 2022.

  1. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Oh I think LDLT, Reyna, JF, and Aaronson could. But we will never know.
     
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  2. MuchoTakeItEasy

    MuchoTakeItEasy Member+

    LAFC
    United States
    May 16, 2015
    Land of the Free
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Aaronson is more counterattacking than possession (look at his club teams styles). I don't think its a stretch to say LDLT is a defensive downgrade. My point is I don't think it's poor tactics to minimize downgrading the defense. JF is better than Wright in this regard (with exception of defending set pieces). Reyna and DLT are apparently not trusted defensively.
     
  3. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    It’s by far our best attribute.
     
  4. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    As I felt certain that they would be from the moment that I first saw them play together in that Wales right after the pandemic shutdown.
     
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  5. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    I don’t think so.

    Aaronson has a role, but it’s not the same as what McKennie and Musah accomplish.

    Part of what makes those two guys so effective is that they are both excellent physical athletes with skill. Aaronson has tons of skill, but he gets bullied easily. Reyna doesn’t have the bite or discipline.
     
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  6. Bajoro

    Bajoro Member+

    Sep 10, 2000
    The Inland Empire
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey, maybe I knew you guys in Richmond... the first 23 yrs of my life were spent there.

    Of course, that was a long, long time ago. :)
     
  7. ShayG

    ShayG Member

    Celtic
    United States
    Aug 9, 2021
    Also, you accidentally typed “deck”.
     
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  8. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    I grew up in the North Bay. But my mom grew up on Balboa. I think. It's been a while since she's talked about that house.
     
  9. Cavan9

    Cavan9 Member

    Nov 16, 2011
    Silver Spring, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's a quote from an actual professional soccer coach who has an actual history of success who also has to figure out tactics in real time rather than just throwing out contrary stuff after the fact. Just like Coach Berhalter and every one of the other 31 World Cup coaches. Keep that in mind when you read keyboard spew from internet haters.

    Berhalter deserves credit for taking a team whose player base had been destroyed by an amateur with a big mouth (Klinsmann completely failed to bring new, young players into the pool except for very young prospects from Germany who hadn't yet held a first team role for an entire season. He also let cliques form in the locker room, destroying the ability of the talent already there to work together.), recruiting/developing all new young players, teaching them his preferred style, adjusting that style for them when needed, and winning multiple competitive games including getting to the second round of a World Cup through a Group of Death through its own results without relying on stuff like goal differential and other teams beating teams ahead of us in the standings.

    I've always respected Berhalter for how he took a far less talented Crew team in 2018 and had them nullify the hottest team in the league on the road in round 1 of the MLS playoffs. That was my favorite MLS team's best chance to make and MLS Cup since Jaime Moreno was on our team and he figured out how to nullify Lucha-Roo. In 2019, the other teams copied Berhalter's strategy along with key players losing form and DC United crashed back to earth.

    Anyway, I don't think many of the keyboard haters have every played tournament soccer. It's way tighter than during the season and stuff happens. You also don't blow out teams unless the talent level is dramatically different, which doesn't happen in a World Cup. You especially don't blow out another team if they only have to draw and you have to win. You also don't try to press high when the other team has sent extra guys down the flanks to break the press and get crosses. You finally don't try to press when your star attackers are either out of the game or are too tired to make much happen in the attacking third.
     
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  10. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    It’d be more persuasive if Doyle wasn’t a one trick pony where Berhalter’s decisions are concerned. BTW, I agree that the 5 in the back subs made sense, just not the people selected as subs at RB, wing, and MF. (I exclude Haji b/c even though he looked bad, he was a logical choice based on how he played vs England).
     
  11. goussoccer

    goussoccer Member+

    May 23, 2001
    Avon, CT
    #1036 goussoccer, Nov 30, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2022
    Okay, so you avoided the question. Unless your response is your definition of success is making the finals?? I think that is a rather high bar to set. Not that we shouldn’t aspire to that, but it shouldn’t be the minimum for Berhalter to be considered a good coach.

    okay. Saw your new thread. I’ll move there.
     
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  12. MuchoTakeItEasy

    MuchoTakeItEasy Member+

    LAFC
    United States
    May 16, 2015
    Land of the Free
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What do you mean? I thought Doyle was pretty critical especially in September...?
     
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  13. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    LDLT reminds me a little of Julian Geeen. Skilled, but doesn’t fare well on the physical side of things. So, good guy to bring on in the 105’.
     
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  14. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Yeah, it occurred to me that a lot of this conversation is driven by different ideas about what the goals here are.

    What I'm hoping to see is a team that the big teams take seriously. Maybe not quite a Netherlands or a Portugal, but getting clost. Brazil, France, Germany, Italy would still be favorites, but they'd all know they're in for a tough game.

    That's what "taking the US to the next level" means to me
     
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  15. The Clientele

    The Clientele Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Jun 25, 2005
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m still amazed MMA shut down England’s $200 million dollar midfield. They simply anonymized them.
     
  16. the5timechamp

    the5timechamp Member+

    Nov 3, 2012
    To me next level would be to have a high bare minimum level of play… squeaking by with only 1 road win in Concacaf qualifying is not it… sure futbol is futbol and sometimes you get into a quagmire match but being a team of 2 identities from home and away is just not good enough.. I honestly hope we can find a way to front foot matches at least in our region to start off…
    Our qualification/friendly performances were just too all over the place in this cycle…I understand it was a full rebuild so win/loss isnt the main focus but even as we approached the WC the level of play was still so bafflingly unpredictable…
     
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  17. QuakeAttack

    QuakeAttack Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    California - Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The big teams have been taking us seriously for the past ten years. We are no longer an up and coming international team with a few players playing in top leagues. We have played in 7 of the last 8 WC and we have players across leagues in Europe and other countries. We can beat any team on any given day. They know that it's going to be a tough game. England knew it. Holland knows it.

    For me, the next level is when the US is feared because they are expected to win more often than not.
     
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  18. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I just re-watched the 2nd half. My thoughts have changed a bit. First, I'd previously commented that Shaq and Haji were terrible. I'd like to amend that to:

    Haji was terrible, doesn't put forth any effort AT ALL, looked dead tired even though he only was on the field for 20 minutes, doesn't put forth any effort AT ALL (did I already say that?), and I actually yelled at him in the 98th minute even though I'd already seen the game once. Shaq Moore put forth plenty of effort, had a few good moments, a (really) sloppy giveaway around midfield, headed out a ball he didn't need to touch and biffed a chance to pass in front of goal. Not terrible, but not affirming.

    Also, someone said we bunkered for 40 minutes, and others have made similar comments. We didn't bunker aside from perhaps added time (though I'd still not really call that a bunker, given our forwards were still pressing into Iran's half). We absorbed pressure and played for the counter attack for most of the half. And the team created maybe 6 good chances, none of which came off.

    Further, on first watch I thought Aaronson didn't do much. I was very surprised to see how wrong my initial viewing interpretation was. He was a crucial driving force and provided a bunch of creative attacking chances. If only he had had Ferreira on instead of Haji Wright when Sargent came off then we might have gotten a 2nd goal on one of our counters.
     
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  19. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    At no time have I ever said you have to be nice to him. 100% agree with your last sentence.
     
  20. adam tash

    adam tash BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    this is a ridiculous drivel-laden response to what I posted.

    I'm not trying to make a rubric of what a good coach is and isn't.

    I'm not trying to come to a consensus on what the bar or standard is for berhalter and then assess from there.

    I'm not attempting to be the HR manager of the USMNT - like you seem to imply I am because I dont like the coaching of the USMNT present and past. I simply don't like the decision-making and thought processes that go into the management of my favorite sports team that I have followed for decades.....am I not allowed that opinion???

    all info should be taken into account and the situation should be assessed from there. it's fluid. I am opposed to a "standard" that must be reached in order for the coach to be brought back, generally. I think it's a ridiculous way to make the best national team, if so.

    "berhalter made it out of the group/to QF/etc so our hands are tied, he must be the 2026 coach now" is irrational and absurd in my eyes.

    honest question: do you actually enjoy watching "berhalter ball"??
     
  21. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    The idea of levels is, of course, arbitrary, and where we set the lines. I think the nature of the World Cup also makes it super hard to really draw them -- it's small sample size, it's match up driven, the group stage turns on things sometime not even in your games.

    I think there's some finer differentiation points we could tease out. The England game isn't the first time we've really gone toe to toe with a big team, but it's was not the same as the win over Spain, for example, where we really just held on.

    But two clear differentiation points for me will be:
    • When we easily qualify / become dominant in WCQ in CONCACAF. People will say that's a low bar, but that's been pretty rare for any team in CONCACAF. If we can become the Brazil of CONCACAF, that's a clear step forward.
    • When we are listed as a realistic darkhorse for the World Cup, preferably by non-American sources and preferably not in 2026 when home field plays a role. Basically, are we considered Croatia or 2018 Belgium or something.
    There's probably another step in there -- maybe making quarterfinals more than once? But the darkhorse is a team that makes the quarters or maybe the semis, and that feels like the next step WC wise.

    And in CCAF, the next step is not just winning but starting to dominate. Even if countries like Mexico and Canada come along (like Argentina with Brazil), it's going through a cycle where we take 6 points off all the El Salvadors.
     
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  22. mace

    mace Member+

    Indy 11
    United States
    Jun 5, 2004
    USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    that last burst of speed, that early anticipation, by Pulisic when he propels himself into the 18 box is just awesome. What a complete team goal and what a fantastic run and kamakazi finish by CP.
     
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  23. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    How is he a one trick pony? You clearly don’t read his articles. But we’ve been through that.
     
  24. adam tash

    adam tash BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    youre either willfully misinterpreting everything I write or you lack basic reading skills, which is it?

    give kerr the sacramento kings roster...they dont make the playoffs.

    but there are some coaches out there that could get them to the playoffs, is my point.
     
  25. QuakeAttack

    QuakeAttack Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    California - Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think your level is one level above mine. I have been waiting for the above for 20 years. While I'm more optimistic in the next cycle, I don't see your level for another 10 -14 years at the earliest. Hopefully, I will still be around...
     

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