2022 World Cup Qatar: Quarterfinals - Argentina vs. Netherlands

Discussion in 'Argentina: Selecciones Nacionales' started by locoxriver, Dec 4, 2022.

  1. locoxriver

    locoxriver Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 22, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Argentina [​IMG] Match 57 [​IMG] Netherlands
    9 December 2022
    22:00 local time (11:00 AM PST / 2:00 PM EST)​

    Venue: Lusail Iconic Stadium (Lusail, Qatar) - 88,966 capacity

    [​IMG]


    ------------------------------------------

    Historical head-to-head record:

    [​IMG]


    9 games played: 1 Argentina win, 4 draws, 4 Holland wins

    Argentina and Netherlands have met on five occasions in the past at the FIFA World Cup.

    Argentina's first WC win vs. the Dutch was the most important of the five encounters, as the winner of that match would be keeping the World Cup trophy.

    On June 25, 1978, in a packed Estadio Monumental in Buenos Aires, Argentina, la albiceleste took on Netherlands in the final of the '78 World Cup.

    Full game highlights:



    Argentina was playing a World Cup final for the second time in history and looking to win the tournament for the first time. Things seemed to be going well halfway in, as Argentina had found the lead on the 37th minute thanks to Mario Kempes, making the home crowd wild.

    When everybody was preparing to celebrate, substitute Dick Nanninga equalized the match for Holland in the 82nd minute -- reviving World Cup hopes for the Dutch and sending the match to an extra time period of 30 minutes.

    Fortunately, Argentina were able to recover from the late goal and take back the lead, first with another goal from Kempes (105') followed by a 115th minute strike by Daniel Bertoni.

    The victory not only meant the first ever World Cup title for Argentina, but also a nice revenge against the Dutch, who had defeated (and virtually eliminated) Argentina from the 1974 World Cup four years earlier.

    Led by the brilliant Johan Cruyff, Netherlands defeated Argentina by 4-0 in the Second Round of the cup. The defeat was a heavy blow for Argentina, who wouldn't make it past that stage, while the Dutch would go on to play (and lose) the final.



    Another iconic World Cup encounter featuring both teams took place in the 1998 World Cup in France.

    Holland took an early lead in the 12th minute thanks to Patrick Kluivert, although Argentina had a near-immediate response through Claudio Lopez's equalizer just 5 minutes later.

    The match remained tied with only a few minutes remaining and appeared destined for extra time, until two dark moments in Argentina WC history occurred late in the game.

    First -in the 87th minute- Argentine star Ariel Ortega received a red card for infamously headbutting Holland GK Edward Van der Sar

    [​IMG]

    Three minutes later, Dennis Bergkamp would score a late golazo in stoppage time to dramatically send Argentina home and Netherlands to the semifinals (which they would eventually lose on penalties to Brazil).

    The two sides would later meet at the 2006 World Cup for the final match of Group C. With both teams practically already qualified to the second round, Jose Pekerman decided to field an alternative side, playing many starters but also resting some key players. The match itself was far from spectacular and ended 0-0.

    The final World Cup encounter took place in 2014, a match which was decided on penalties and granted Argentina a spot in the tournament final. The game is commonly remembered for Mascherano's iconic slide tackle to stop a potential Robben goal.

    [​IMG]

    After a 0-0 draw, Argentina would win 4-2 on penalties, with Sergio Romero making two key saves in the shootout. The only remaining players from that squad are Messi and Di Maria.



    Interesting fact: this will be the third time Messi plays against Netherlands at the World Cup (2006, 2014, 2022). Along with Mexico (2006, 2010, 2022) and Nigeria (2010, 2014, 2018), this is the team he has faced the most at WCs.

    Outside of the World Cup, the two sides have met on 4 occasions, with Argentina failing to leave victorious in any of the games.

    The four matches, all held on European soil, finished with the following results:

    - May 26, 1974: Netherlands 4 - 1 Argentina
    - May 22, 1979: Netherlands 0 - 0 Argentina
    - March 3, 1999: Netherlands 1 - 1 Argentina
    - February 12, 2003: Netherlands 1 - 0 Argentina​

    As for non-FIFA matches, Argentina defeated Holland in the Quarterfinals of the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing. This side featured both Messi and Di Maria, who both ended up being decisive that day.

    Lionel Messi opened the game early in the first half for Argentina with a 14th minute goal, although Otman Bakkal would tie it for Netherlands in the 36th minute.

    The match would go on to a 30 minute period of extra time, where Argentina would find the lead in the 105th minute thanks to Di Maria -- a vital goal which allowed Argentina to progress to the next round and eventually take the gold.



    ------------------------------------------

    FIFA Ranking (for whatever it's worth): 8th

    General World Cup Stats
    Total Number of Participations: 12
    Best Performance: Runner-ups (2nd place) - 1974, 1978 (lost to Argentina), and 2010
    ------------------------------------------

    Hollands' form leading up to the WC:

    - Finished first in Group G of the UEFA's WCQs, ahead of the likes of Turkey and Norway. In total, their qualifying campaign consisted of 7 wins, 2 draws, and 1 loss (4-2 defeat to Turkey)

    - Most recent UEFA Euros participation: 2020 (played in 2021), lost 2-0 in Round of 16 to Czech Republic

    - Most recent UEFA Nations League participation:
    2022-23 (currently ongoing), Finished 1st in Group A4 (ahead of Belgium, Poland, and Wales) -- qualified to Finals Stage semifinals

    2020-21, Finished 2nd in Group A1 (Behind Italy)

    - 5 most recent results:
    - September 2022: 1-0 W vs. Belgium
    - November 2022: 2-0 W vs. Senegal
    - November 2022: 1-1 D vs. Ecuador
    - November 2022: 2-0 W vs. Qatar
    - November 2022: 3-1 W vs. USA​
     
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  2. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Ironically for Netherlands, in all their victories they never finish as a champion. When we beat them in 1978 & Olympics 2008, we finished as champion.
     
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  3. Ozora

    Ozora Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Aug 5, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea LFC
    Netherland with their low block this tournament. It is not hard to stop their attack but to break 8-9 man low block is. Hope for Messi's magic and Di Maria returns. Also should overload their flanks. 3-5-2 is my pick from start. Should dominate possesion and do something like Pep here
    20221204_161929.jpg

    They don't have Robben, a player who was extremely dangerous in one on one and counter.

    One thing is there will be much more Argentina's fans in stadium.
     
  4. ilovefotball

    ilovefotball Member

    Feb 11, 2006
    europe
    Either 3-5-2 or if we play 4-3-3, we must play Enzo a little bit further up than what he did against Australia and play the FBs more closer to our goal than the opponent’s goal. We need to play RDP, Enzo and Mac much closer than the recent games so that we can control the midfield better.

    This will allow us:

    - To control the game better
    - Involve Messi more in the game as he will be closer to the midfield.
    - Midfielders will also have more chances to create goal for our strikers. So our attack won’t only depend on Messi.
    - We will have more chances to create centrally, instead of trying to create from the wings all the time. More variations.
    - Defend better as the Netherlands often attack better through their FBs.

    I am pretty sure Netherlands will also try to play similar to Australia, but this time the opponent is better so we might suffer more. Against Australia, we did not create any chance before the goal. In addition, Australia were keeping the ball very well without any problem. At one time they had a sequence of holding the ball for around 150 seconds :( We must therefore change our way of playing one way or the other.
     
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  5. Riquelme100

    Riquelme100 Member

    Villarreal
    Argentina
    Jun 30, 2018
    Holland will spam our flanks, which means no more hiding and subpar performance by Molina. He has been dreadful. He is going ot be tested and thats worrying because he is bang average. Very limited "right wing back" and stiff as a board. Acuna on the other hand is harder to beat. The midfield needs to protect our full backs.
     
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  6. soul24rage

    soul24rage Member+

    Barcelona
    Jun 13, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I agree with the sentiment of playing a 352 as we need Enzo a bit higher to work his magic. Lisandro can make the pass between the lines as well.

    Dibu---Romero, Otamendi, Lisandro---Molina, RDP, Enzo, MacA, Acuna---Messi, Alvarez

    But I have a feeling Scaloni will start a 442 with the starters being the same. Wouldn't mind this either.

    Dibu---Molina, Romero, Otamendi, Acuna---Di Maria, RDP, Enzo, MacA---Messi, Alvarez

    - The battle between RDP vs Frenkie De Jong will be very important. Good thing RDP is in form now.
    - Dumfries is really the player that I am most concerned of and MacA to play to help Acuna deal with his pace.

    Overall, I'm still confident in this team to deliver the victory. The players got a day off today and seeing their families. Very well deserved and I hope they enjoy it.

    Quick question: Acuna has 1 yellow right now. If he gets another yellow and we qualify to the semi's, will Acuna be suspended for the semi?
     
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  7. Albiceleste2010

    Albiceleste2010 Member+

    Watford
    Argentina
    Jun 5, 2010
    Watford
    Club:
    Watford FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    All cards are cleared. Acuna was subbed off and Montiel the only other recipient was subbed on. He didn't pick up a second. So the entire squad is available.
     
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  8. Christina99

    Christina99 Member+

    Argentina
    Sep 22, 2013
    Buenos Aires
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I think this is a good game for a fresh Di Maria
     
  9. Burr

    Burr Member+

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Jul 8, 2014
    Tampa, FL
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Netherlands gave up several chances and a goal to a USA team that barely knew what it was doing offensively and all three of their goals were due to ridiculously poor defending. I think mental sharpness is the key as they're able to quickly exploit any lapses. Fortunately we have a long break to recharge unlike the USA which was on short turnaround after an emotional and hard-fought win where everyone had to empty their gas tanks.
     
  10. ilovefotball

    ilovefotball Member

    Feb 11, 2006
    europe
    The yellow card slate is wiped clean after the quarterfinals have concluded. None of our players will therefore miss any game due to yellow cards now.
     
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  11. Amuseddaysleeper

    Jul 8, 2014
    Netherlands looked good and comfortable against the US, but for us a week off should do wonders.

    I just hope Lisandro and Enzo start as I still don’t agree with the starting XI from the last match. Was so nice to see De Paul look like a footballer again.

    I definitely feel more worried about Netherlands than I did a week ago but we just need to play our game. Some of the sleep walking against Australia I’m hoping was due to the short turnaround. I hope we really bring the intensity on Friday because now the real World Cup starts. Really looking forward to it
     
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  12. Pekerman

    Pekerman Member+

    May 20, 2006
    #12 Pekerman, Dec 4, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2022
    FDJ needs to be exposed. He's a soft guy. Paredes has his number btw.
    Papu just has no place in this team, he was occupying Mac's territory before being sent to the right. I hope we don't see him even as a sub.
     
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  13. Pekerman

    Pekerman Member+

    May 20, 2006
    #13 Pekerman, Dec 4, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2022
    Mac, I want to see more involved, he shows up for some nice touches and control but most of the time I just don't see him fighting like I used to see Lo Celso (in fact I barely see him). I also think he is playing too far up almost like a second striker maybe as per Scaloni's instructions but I don't remember our midfield being this disjointed the space between Mac and Enzo is all empty. That's why we say let's triangulation, Paredes used to be higher btw Enzo is pretty much between defender but that has much to do with Scaloni extra cautious plan I think

    And I really believe a lot of the lack of creativity and options aside from Messi is due to Paredes absence. Maybe just maybe Mac is a better second half sub in case we go to penalties too
     
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  14. Pekerman

    Pekerman Member+

    May 20, 2006
    Scaloni's in-game real time reading and reactions with subs still isn't the best for me.
     
  15. Albiceleste2010

    Albiceleste2010 Member+

    Watford
    Argentina
    Jun 5, 2010
    Watford
    Club:
    Watford FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Given that their main threat is their fullbacks I would go 3-5-2.

    Constrict the midfield and push our WBs to keep their FBs on the defensive. Have a deeper lying DM infront of a back three.

    In possession have one of the back three come into midfield and act as an alternate playmaker with the DM. Controlling possession is key. Wear them out.

    ----------------------------------Emiliano-------------------------------------
    ---------------Romero-------Otamendi----------Licha-------------------
    -Montiel----------------------Enzo------------------------------Acuna----
    ------------------------RDP-------------------------------------------------
    ---------------------------------------MacAllister---------------------------
    ---------------------Messi----------------------Alvarez--------------------
     
  16. soul24rage

    soul24rage Member+

    Barcelona
    Jun 13, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    This is why I would like the 352. Let the wingbacks take care of the width and this will allow MacA to be more involved in the center. Also, this allows Messi to be more involved as well.

    Cross proximity with the players and winning the midfield battle by overloading midfield.
     
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  17. Pekerman

    Pekerman Member+

    May 20, 2006
    Molina looked extremely tired vs Australia like he lost 50% of his pace. The goal is partly his fault if you watch, first a bad clearance, then fails to close down the wing when he was double teaming the australian attacker who left him for dust. He will be fresh on friday tho
     
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  18. Pekerman

    Pekerman Member+

    May 20, 2006
    It is true Mac and the team improved in the second half after formation change due to Papu's injury
     
  19. Christina99

    Christina99 Member+

    Argentina
    Sep 22, 2013
    Buenos Aires
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    With a good mentality, rested players and a good tactical plan, we could win this.

    We certainly have the players, the grit, the talent and the goat.
     
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  20. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    So, the Dutch are gonna play with a counterattacking style. Or maybe LVG will have something up his sleeve. I think finding a goal could be tricky but the Dutch could be penetrated quite easily. Yes they have VVD, who I admire quite a bit, but I’m overly concerned about anything else but their speed. We need to nullify it. You saw how lazy the US were in their second goal?


    Depay aka Poor Man’s Neymar(Seriously, doesn’t this guy look like Neymar?) Also Gakpo is quick and can cause damage.


    Show Spoiler

    Seriously, Neymar has decided to play for the Dutch [​IMG]


    No pussyfooting around in this match. Our defenders need to be ready. I’m still concerned with a back 3, finding that goal could be tricky because ADM won’t start. But if we do bring him on late in the match, who gets pushed out?
     
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  21. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
  22. Pekerman

    Pekerman Member+

    May 20, 2006
    That's the thing. I don't see us starting with 3 in the back then putting an attacker in the second? I think Scaloni starts 4 in the back then switches in the second as he has done so far.

    I gotta give credit to Scaloni he did notice when things weren't working:

    “He has a big knock on his ankle but even so, I had the feeling that the team needed something else, which is what we tried with Lisandro. To have Acuna and Nahuel and three midfielders with Leo. We improved in that aspect.”
     
  23. Albiceleste2010

    Albiceleste2010 Member+

    Watford
    Argentina
    Jun 5, 2010
    Watford
    Club:
    Watford FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    It's concerning that an injury forced Scaloni's hand not an intentioned change. Gomez cannot press and we need that.
     
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  24. Albiceleste2010

    Albiceleste2010 Member+

    Watford
    Argentina
    Jun 5, 2010
    Watford
    Club:
    Watford FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Messi is going to set the tempo for us again. That instant when he decided to press like mad in the first half turned the whole team on.

    It is imperative everyone remembers they are a threat too and believe in their own skills and do their part. Not leave it just to Leo. Because you can be sure the Dutch will have him double marked along with a low central block.
     
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  25. locoxriver

    locoxriver Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 22, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I also think Julian is key to Messi’s game.. he just pressures and moves around so much off the ball that it allows Lio to find more spaces.

    Perhaps it’s not so much of a coincidence that both of his non-PK goals so far this tournament have been with Julian on the pitch. In fact, I don’t even know if he has had any shots when sharing the field with Lautaro
     

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