2022 World Cup Qatar: Group C - Argentina vs. Mexico

Discussion in 'Argentina: Selecciones Nacionales' started by locoxriver, Jun 6, 2022.

  1. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member+

    Jan 19, 2013
    Julian is not a mifielder at all! Neither is he a left winger or a right winger. We've seen him on the left wing a few times and it hasn't been good. Julian is good but his positioning is narrow. Can't stand playing players out of position.


    Molina-Ota-Licha-Acuna
    ----------Guido/Paredes---
    ----RDP/Mac----Enzo/Mac-------
    -----Messi---------------------
    -------------------------Almada
    --------Lautaro----------------

    Di Maria switches us to the left. Acuna to move up further. Or play Tag (who was very good defensively) and when we bright in Di Maria bring in Acuna at the same time so that we have width on left and right.
     
  2. soul24rage

    soul24rage Member+

    Barcelona
    Jun 13, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    My diagram is an incredibly basic showing. Acuna will the one who provides the width with Alvarez cutting in frequently. To be a little more accurate, it would be something like this

    ------------------Lautaro
    ------Alvarez
    ------------------------------Messi
    --------------------------------------------De Paul
    Acuna-------Enzo
    -------------------------Paredes
    -----------------------------------------Montiel/Molina
    -----------Lisandro---------Otamendi
     
    Pekerman repped this.
  3. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member+

    Jan 19, 2013
    Exactly. If we go back to the 2019 Copa when this team was built, it was a fresh in-form crew that wasn't that well-known. These were players like De Paul, Lautaro, Lo Celso, Nico, Paredes, and Foyth. RDP was especially important and eclipsed Di Maria who had long been our 2nd most important player on the team. The semifinal loss to Brazil 2-0 was actually the best match that team ever played together. RDP was a monster. Brazilians were saying we totally outplayed them and that they got lucky.

    Anyway, because they succeeded we keep playing them. Whereas we should be repeating the same ideas that led to the win: play in-form players in their positions!
     
    DTCrackheads repped this.
  4. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member+

    Jan 19, 2013
    Fair enough. I've seen Alvarez a few times slightly to the left and behind Lautaro and IMO it doesn't work nearly as well as when we had Nico there.
     
    DTCrackheads repped this.
  5. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member+

    Jan 19, 2013
    #130 johnbarley2, Nov 24, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2022
    Arg | Saudi
    Shots: 15/3
    Corners: 9/2
    Possession: 70/30
    Fouls: 7/21
    Yellows: 0/6

    All these are indicators we played well and got unlucky. Plus the goal given 9/10 times.
     
  6. soul24rage

    soul24rage Member+

    Barcelona
    Jun 13, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    There was never a time when Julian played as a LW with a Midfielder covering the right side and with Lautaro ahead of him in a 442/433 mix formation. With a midfielder like De Paul helping the right side like he did in the Copa 2021, then Alvarez has more license to cut in more and run into the space where Messi likes to pass to.
     
  7. Milwaukee Joe

    Milwaukee Joe Member

    Jun 23, 2018
    For me, the most important change Scaloni has to make is Enzo for Papu. That one's a no-brainer. People can say a RDP-Paredes-Enzo midfield is an unfamiliar one but so what, it doesn't matter. That's what often happens in mundials. Things change, the manager is still seeking his best team and circumstances dictate changes have to be made, either through suspensions, injuries or loss of form. Stars are made in mundials. That's the bottom line. Often players come out of nowhere and shine, young players, unknown players, players that weren't expected to play a major role. I have no problem with calling in an inexperienced player, none at all. Bring in Enzo Fernandez. The time is now.

    If Mac Allister comes in at the expense of Paredes I have no problem with that either. Mac Allister is a good player. Some of you underestimate him. I don't expect Scaloni to make this change though, unless Paredes is unfit.

    Another obvious change is Acuña for Tagliafico, assuming Acuña is fit. Right-back is a real problem position for me and I've always said it. We just have to do the best we can.

    The other player I'd like to see come in is Dybala. He just doesn't get enough international minutes. What a player. Scaloni should have brought him on against the Saudis, assuming he's fit (which he might not be). Alvarez and Lautaro isn't a great combo whereas Dybala is a number 10 that can play close to the striker, link with the striker, link with Messi, play the killer pass, dribble, shoot, score and assist. He has imagination and skill. He has knowhow. He knows how to find space, he knows how to unlock a defence, how can we afford to leave him out? He's a superior player to Di Maria, albeit a different one. Di Maria shouldn't be an untouchable in this side.

    With Dybala and Enzo we play a more traditional Argentine style, that other teams can't replicate. We rely on skill, we rely on our gifts, short passes, that Argentina rhythm, possession, we don't rely wholly on Messi, we give the opposition other players to worry about, players that can kill you. Messi needs players on his wavelength to make the team really blossom, players that he can connect with. That player isn't Papu Gomez. I want to see Enzo, Messi and Dybala playing close to each other. I want to see Mexico try to cope. That's just too much Argentine honey for any team to deal with. There's wit and imagination and goals in that trio.

    Lastly, Licha, top player, big cojones, aggressive but he can also play, if he comes in I've got no problem with that, ideally it would be for Otamendi but if Cuti is unfit so be it. Licha won't let anybody down.

    No more ********-ups from Scaloni please. We have to take these Mexicans down. It's time for the real Argentina to show up.
     
  8. Pekerman

    Pekerman Member+

    May 20, 2006
    The most sensible analysis so far. I hope Scaloni is reading. Criminal how Dybala wasn't brought in for Di Maria would have allowed us to play more centrally
     
    DTCrackheads and Milwaukee Joe repped this.
  9. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member+

    Jan 19, 2013
    Why reinvent the wheel? We were playing great before. Slot in a left winger for Nico! Almada.
     
  10. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member+

    Jan 19, 2013
    Dybala never got minutes cause there's too much overlap with Messi. Overlap sucks. The more the overlap the greater dropoff for each overlapping player. Players must complement each other. That's why although Nico was no huge star, the team played great when he was on. It's why Di Maria was our 2nd best player for years over Aguero and why Higuain fit in better than both Tevez & Aguero who were both superior.
     
  11. Pekerman

    Pekerman Member+

    May 20, 2006
    actually if you see Alvarez heatmap for mancity he plays a lot on the left side.

    Overlap between Messi and Dybala is just a myth imo. They played well together almost every time, they are smart enough to do it.
     
    DTCrackheads and Rattlehead repped this.
  12. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member+

    Jan 19, 2013
    Enzo is less of an attacking threat and build-up player than Lo Celso and Papu. So the team would be more defensive. Could work but remember we need a win not a draw. Still, not a bad thing to try.

    Guido is the top player for Real Betis who are #6 in La Liga. How come nobody knows about him? Furthermore, he is a true DM that directly replaces Paredes. That should be the first option.
     
  13. soul24rage

    soul24rage Member+

    Barcelona
    Jun 13, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I don't follow of what you mean reinventing the wheel. Not sure what I am reinventing.

    I see Almada as more of LM and not a winger. We need another goal scorer other than Lautaro and Messi
     
  14. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member+

    Jan 19, 2013
    Julian is in between Tevez and Aguero but not as good as either. Plays as a 2nd striker.

    Well, so far none of our managers have wanted to play Dybala with Messi and Dybala has been good enough on an individual basis for a long time.
     
  15. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member+

    Jan 19, 2013
    I mean, that I haven't seen a Lautaro-Alvarez-Messi do well in a big match. They had a half in the last match and didn't produce a goal.

    I heard Almada made his name on the left wing and moved to midfield recently. I agree he's not a great option (in-form players in their current position mantra) but we don't have any other option. He could be a terrible option. I don't know cause I haven't seen him play in years.
     
  16. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Just replace Papu with Enzo/Mac , starts Julian or Dybala instead of ADM and makes it 4-3-1-2 rather than 4-2-4 like in first game.

    We just lack imtensity to win or keep the ball in midfield in first game which ruined our rythym and made us easily dispossed and countered. Enzo and Mac are young players and would be able to fight in midfield. No need to overthink.
     
    DTCrackheads, Pekerman and soul24rage repped this.
  17. Siempre_Albiceleste

    May 31, 2006
    NY
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    #142 Siempre_Albiceleste, Nov 24, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2022
    God, I hope La Scaloneta is made of firmer stuff than us fans. Don't bother show up for knockouts because we might lose? Could I possibly have read that? I get that the most recent data is the most impactful, but should it be the ONLY thing that registers in our minds?
    Let Scaconi show that he can deal with some adversity. The first sign that he's not up to the task will be a complete panic, where he rearranges this whole team on the fly. It was one bad result, off of a bad performance. Cuti (if health permits) and De Paul will bounce back. Change the left side by swapping out Papu and Tagliafico (shouldn't mean that their world cup is over by the way), this team is good enough to get the result against Mexico. And we'll see from there.
     
    locoxriver, Burr, DTCrackheads and 7 others repped this.
  18. soul24rage

    soul24rage Member+

    Barcelona
    Jun 13, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    We had Di Maria on the RW vs Saudi Arabia the whole match which meant that Julian was more stuck on the LW and less license to cut in. A midfielder on the right side would have helped Julian cut in more and get into more goalscoring opportunities. It was a desperate move from Scaloni to play 4 attackers at the same time.
     
    DTCrackheads, Pekerman and Rattlehead repped this.
  19. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Tell em, tell em!
     
  20. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #145 Rattlehead, Nov 24, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2022
    I just hope he dont pull a Bielsa, avoiding changes until we're 15 minutes from elimination.

    I was disappointed that Papu & ADM still on the field at start of second half. That early penalty somehow switch off our sense of urgency.
     
  21. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member+

    Jan 19, 2013
    Scaloni put Julian cause he belongs in the box. That is what he said in the interview. Di Maria was crossing into that area. He sent 3 extremely good low crosses for Lautaro and Julian. Julian had plenty of opportunity to cut in.

    Seems we just want to throw in all our best goal scorers Diego Maradona style regardless of tactics. Fans are almost always biased towards offense and goals. I was screaming for defensive focus for years. Sabella finally tried it and we almost won the cup! I recommend this formation.

    ----Julian-Lautaro-Dybala-Maria
    -------------------Messi-----------
    Acuna----------------------------Montiel
    ----Enzo---------------RDP------------
    ------------Lisandro-Ota--------------
     
  22. Siempre_Albiceleste

    May 31, 2006
    NY
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    I hear you. I really do. But watching it live, my thoughts were that this was a learning opportunity for the team, and the perfect tonic to all the favorites nonsense they've been hearing.
    I honestly expected the players to step and handle it. And here I have to look at our captain the most. I love him like he was my own son, but it's for those occasions I wish he had a little bit more of Diego in him. Diego grabs this game by the scruff of the neck and walks out with a 3-1 (though disappointing, but calming) victory.
     
    Christina99, Rattlehead and johnbarley2 repped this.
  23. Pekerman

    Pekerman Member+

    May 20, 2006
    Lol no, no one is advocating that we aren't in 2010. Alvarez really isn't far fetched at left vs Almada who barely played. Guido is too defensive great for closing games not when we are trying to win. Paredes passes just go unnoticed but he does contribute a lot to the buildup. Dybala has to be subbed in and early enough so by default he has to play with Messi. I am mostly asking for Enzo and Acuna and I can live with Di Maria starting but no crazy changes or God forbid 3 in the back Sampaoli moves lol
     
    johnbarley2 and soul24rage repped this.
  24. soul24rage

    soul24rage Member+

    Barcelona
    Jun 13, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    What you described is not low crosses but crosses that would suit the English team in the 90s with headers. Crossing is not our game while Cutbacks and quick passing combination is our game and we didn't had any of that after Julian came on as a sub vs Saudi Arabia. If Julian played in that 1st half instead of Papu (playing in the formation that I prefer) with the Saudi players playing a high line, I honestly believe that he would scored a goal.

    The formation that you recommended has 11 outfield players btw.
     
  25. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    As already mentioned 2 days ago, the team started to lost focus after third offside call. The second half we started to give the ball to ADM (& later Acuna) nonstop and let them whipping crosses like the old England team.

    Had we stayed focus and played low throughball like in 1st half, eventually VAR trap will be beaten.
     
    johnbarley2 and soul24rage repped this.

Share This Page