2022 WC qualification--tracking the rankings (R)

Discussion in 'CONCACAF' started by Robert Borden, Nov 1, 2018.

  1. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    17 November

    League A

    Costa Rica(1446) vs. Haiti (1281) 1-1
    0.5 - (1/(10^(165/600) + 1)) = 0.1532
    0.1532 * 25 = 3.83
    HAI +4 CRC -4

    Honduras(1368) vs. Trinidad & Tobago(1210) 4-0
    1 - (1/(10^(-158/600) + 1)) = 0.3529
    0.3529 * 25 = 8.8225
    HON +9 TRI -9

    MEX 1618 (+6)
    USA 1538 (+8)
    JAM 1447 (+6)
    CRC 1442 (+6)
    HON 1377 (+9)
    SLV 1340 (+4) [+1]
    --
    CAN 1331 (-8) [-1]
    CUW 1313 (-10)
    PAN 1304 (-6)
    HAI 1285 (+4)
    TRI 1201 (-12)
    ATG 1123 (-6)

    Costa Rica wins the group, Haiti is relegated, Curacao in the middle. If the USA gets the win vs. Cuba, the Nations League final stage will have all four seeded teams and will not feature any battle for the final hex spots.
     
  2. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    18 November

    League B

    Aruba(885) vs. Antigua & Barbuda(1123) 2-3
    1 - (1/(10^(-238/600) + 1)) = 0.2863
    0.2863 * 25 = 7.1575
    ATG +7 ARU -7

    Jamaica(1447) vs. Guyana(969) 1-1
    0.5 - (1/(10^(478/600) + 1)) = 0.3623
    0.3623 * 25 = 9.0575
    GUY +9 JAM -9

    MEX 1618 (+6)
    USA 1538 (+8)
    CRC 1442 (+6) [+1]
    JAM 1438 (-3) [-1]
    HON 1377 (+9)
    SLV 1340 (+4) [+1]
    --
    CAN 1331 (-8) [-1]
    CUW 1313 (-10)
    PAN 1304 (-6)
    HAI 1285 (+4)
    TRI 1201 (-12)
    ATG 1130 (+1)

    Not much to say about these results. Tomorrow the group stage ends with Canada holding on to a sliver of hope for an upset or two. If Cuba somehow gets a result vs. USA, Canada gets the group win and a trip to the Nations League semifinals with a chance to rack up ranking points. If the Dominican Republic repeats its upset over El Salvador, then we go into 2020 with a very narrow margin at the cutoff line.
     
  3. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    19 November

    League A

    Cuba(938) vs. USA(1538) 0-4
    1 - (1/(10^(-600/600) + 1)) = 0.0909
    0.0909 * 25 = 2.2725
    USA +2 CUB -2

    Mexico(1618) vs. Bermuda(986) 2-1
    1- (1/(10^(-632/600) + 1)) = 0.0813
    0.0813 * 25 = 2.0325
    MEX +2 BER -2

    League B

    El Salvador(1340) vs. Dominican Republic(1040) 2-0
    1 - (1/(10^(-300/600) + 1)) = 0.2403
    0.2403 * 25 = 6.0075
    SLV +6 DOM -6

    MEX 1620 (+8)
    USA 1540 (+10)
    CRC 1442 (+6) [+1]
    JAM 1438 (-3) [-1]
    HON 1377 (+9)
    SLV 1346 (+10) [+1]
    --
    CAN 1331 (-8) [-1]
    CUW 1313 (-10)
    PAN 1304 (-6)
    HAI 1285 (+4)

    The Nations League group stage ends with the same top 6 teams in the same order as when we started. It's really down to El Salvador and Canada, both of whom can only play friendlies the rest of the way. El Salvador should be heavily favored, but the unofficial 15-point margin is not so large that it couldn't be overcome over the course of four friendlies. Canada will have to schedule the right opponents and get the right results, and then who knows what El Salvador will do? Will it avoid friendlies to hold onto its point total? Will it drop points somewhere?

    I'm dropping the teams more than 100 points below the line from my tracking. I also will limit my posts about teams more than 100 points above the line. I will still track their rankings in my files, but I won't be making posts about various USA or Mexico friendlies unless they play some of these other teams.

    The official rankings will come out next week, and then I think there's another official ranking in December. I don't know if there will be any games to change anything between November and December.
     
    edcalvi and Suyuntuy repped this.
  4. slaminsams

    slaminsams Member+

    Mar 22, 2010
    El Salvador has 1 friendly scheduled against Iceland so far.
     
  5. Insigne4BalonD'or

    SSC Napoli
    Italy
    Apr 6, 2017
    In Hiding with Sal's mom
    The CSA needs to spend money on organizing friendlies if we are to have any chance at making it to the hex.

    Teams we should try and schedule friendlies with IMO are: Tunisia, Armenia, Ireland, Czech Republic, Jamaica, and Norway.

    IDEALLY, we end up with Armenia and Jamaica. Is there anybody who would be able to calculate how many points we'd get from wins against Armenia and Jamaica in a FIFA sanctioned window as well as how many points El Salvador would drop if they were to lose to Iceland.
     
  6. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wait...when? How? Since Iceland have to go through the Euro 2020 playoffs in March. Unless that would be once of Iceland's pre-Euro friendlies in early June...
     
  7. Jay510

    Jay510 Member+

    Apr 21, 2002
    Gadsden Purchase, AZ
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    this is why its a stupid system, the rankings and especially stupid to allow that to determine the hex. Whether you think SLV or CAN deserve to go, its the same problem, playing friendlies to get into the Hex.

    Why dont they just schedule 2 friendlies against each other. It would be the 2 most serious friendlies ever played
     
    edcalvi and Insigne4BalonD'or repped this.
  8. slaminsams

    slaminsams Member+

    Mar 22, 2010
  9. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ah - so outside of a FIFA window. Won't be worth much then, which may be a calculated risk.
     
  10. LordofBrewtown

    Wigan Athletic
    United States
    Nov 19, 2018
    With friendlies not worth as much, El Salvador actually has a decent cushion. Canada is probably going to have to risk playing some pretty good teams in order to get the needed points.
     
  11. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For El Salvador, an out-of-window friendly against Iceland would be approximately worth +3 for a win, +0.5 for draw, -2 for a loss. It does make some sense as a calculated risk. +3 is nothing to scoff at in the best case scenario, a draw does no harm, and worst case is -2 which isn't horrible.
     
    cleazer repped this.
  12. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OTOH, El Salvador's coach has asked to cancel the friendly :eek:
     
  13. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    El Salvador shaping up to be this cycle's Trinidad in the Hex.
     
  14. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Btw, while we're all focused on that last berth in the Hex, there's an even more exciting race going on one step down:

    Nicaragua had shoved their way into Pot A for Concacaf's WCQ Tier II tournament last month, on the strength of pummeling poor Dominica.

    ...and then the pinoleros crapped the bed this month and fell out of consideration. Now St. Kitts and Nevis are the last top seed - but Gold Cup qualifiers Suriname are 1 point off in the FIFA rankings :eek:

    And since neither will be involved in the Gold Cup playoffs (Suriname are already in, while SKN got relegated), they'll have to schedule friendlies to vie for the chance to be head of their group in September, rather than having to fight for survival against the likes of Trinidad and Tobago or Canada.

    @Surinamese-man any word on if the Natio have friendlies lined up for March?
     
    LordofBrewtown and EvanJ repped this.
  15. Surinamese-man

    Aug 20, 2008
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Surinam
    We have heard reports that Natio will play friendly matches.The first would be Panama.But we do not know whether a friendly game is also planned for March.
    As you know,the Surinamese government has given their approval with regard to legislation,but it takes some time because FIFA also has to give official approval.

    We do expect that this will be arranged as quickly as possible.
     
  16. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Official November rankings with a couple of 1-point adjustments from my unofficial numbers:

    MEX 1621 (+9)
    USA 1540 (+10)
    CRC 1442 (+6) [+1]
    JAM 1437 (-4) [-1]
    HON 1377 (+9)
    SLV 1346 (+10) [+1]
    --
    CAN 1331 (-8) [-1]
    CUW 1313 (-10)
    PAN 1304 (-6)
    HAI 1285 (+4)
     
  17. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There are reports that USA will host El Salvador on February 1. El Salvador doesn't have much to lose in a low-weighted game against a better team. If they win or draw, it will make it even harder for Canada to win friendlies to catch El Salvador.
     
    wixson7 and IASocFan repped this.
  18. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Canada will play Iceland in a friendly that will apparently count toward the rankings, Jan. 15 in Irvine, CA.



    El Salvador is also slated to play Iceland in January, but there have been reports that it has been classified as a training match or closed-door event to make it unofficial for the rankings. Probably El Salvador didn't want its game with the USA to count, either, so the USA switched its opponent to Costa Rica.
     
  19. edcalvi

    edcalvi Moderator
    Staff Member

    Olimpia
    Guatemala
    May 1, 2005
    US
    How sad that teams have the choice to not earn their spot playing legitimate games on the field. Concacaf has become a joke for now.
     
  20. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The new ranking system is mostly an improvement over the old system, but one thing it lacks is any penalty for inactivity. In the old rankings, the points for old results were downgraded as time passed, but now a team's point total stays constant when it doesn't play, no matter how long it waits. In normal circumstances, federations are just going to schedule the games they need to schedule without worrying about that, as small fluctuations in the rankings are usually of little consequence. But CONCACAF has created here a huge consequence which can lead to a cynical strategy to avoid playing any games.

    It's not a huge offense that El Salvador won't play in January outside of the FIFA windows, but it will be disappointing if it avoids playing in the March or June windows.
     
    edcalvi repped this.
  21. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Canada has added two games vs. Barbados to its January camp in California.

    https://www.canadasoccer.com/canada...nal-team-holds-january-camp-p162533-preview-1

    These could be considered high-risk, low-reward matches, as wins would be worth approximately 1 point each, while losses would be nearly -4 points each.

    On the other hand, Canada is making an effort to chip away at the 15-point margin. Best case scenario from winning all three games would be +5 points, leaving the margin at 10 points going into the FIFA windows. That is a gap that is possible to be closed, but it requires continuing to get positive results.
     
    Paul Calixte repped this.
  22. blacksun

    blacksun Member+

    Mar 30, 2006
    Seoul, Korea
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Canada has the right idea, but they aren't committing to it. They shouldn't play Barbados twice during their 12 day camp, they should play them twice a day during the camp. That would give them a solid ead on El Salvador coming out of the camp.
     
  23. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Looks like Iceland is bringing their B-team: no Gylfi, no Traustason, no Gunnarsson, no Magnússon, no Kjartansson, no Viðar.
     
  24. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Diminishing returns: every Canada win would drop Barbados's ranking, which would in turn diminish the number of points that Canada could gain from beating them.
     
  25. Kyle_The_Hill

    Kyle_The_Hill New Member

    Toronto FC
    Canada
    Oct 3, 2019
    upload_2020-1-7_10-56-19.png

    We only lose 0.01 points after each win, that's not really the issue. It's the fact that a 26 man roster cant play 24 matches in 12 days.
     

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