2022 WC Qatar: Worldwide Opponents Watch [all R's]

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Sebsasour, Jun 5, 2019.

  1. DGreat

    DGreat Moderator
    Staff Member

    CD Guadalajara
    Mexico
    Oct 5, 2007
    El Ombligo
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    unfortunately Mexico didn't use the right line up to push for a win. Tata played for the tie and it was the wrong move imo.
     
  2. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    The Dutch are so unlucky, by the time soccer is so physical they are in the WC final ahead 3-0, humanity nukes itself right before the final whistle.
     
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  3. fishmonger

    fishmonger Member

    Jul 2, 2014
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    I still don't think size matters that much in this game but if it ever does we will be at a disadvantage, because we all know where our taller athletes go....
     
  4. theboogeyman

    theboogeyman Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    We were forced to, but we were also able to improve due to having a lot of excellent young players. Mexico does not have that, at least in terms of late-teens/early-20s guys who are full pros. Just look at the guys their fans have been calling for:

    Santiago Gimenez has 6 goals in 18 apps for Feyenoord (only 2 in 12 league apps) at age 21.

    Diego Lainez has 1 goal in 6 league apps for Braga in Portugal at age 22.

    marcelo Flores has 1 assist in 10 apps as a part time starter in the Spanish second division at age 19.

    Tata should’ve given guys like them and Julian Araujo more opportunities, but they’re way behind guys like Aaronson, Reyna, and Musah, who are close to the same age.

    simply playing young guys won’t make them better. Those guys might improve, but right now they’re looking more like most of their current players than future stars.


    I think Mexico is in for a rough 4-5 years or so. Their drop off hasn’t been nearly as big as ours was during the last cycle, but they have clearly fallen off a bit, and don’t have much reason to think things will improve soon. Couple that with big improvements from us and Canada, and things are looking pretty dark for them.


    I also want to say that dual national recruitment is one reason why I pull against them (and now Canada) pretty hard. Guys like Araujo and Ochoa chose Mexico at least in part because they were raised to believe that Mexico is a huge power, and that playing for them means they’ve hit the big time. Them sucking is one of the best ways to change the perceptions of young players.

    it’s similar for Koleosho. We very clearly need wing depth. Seeing Canada as a team that’s unlikely to exit the group, while we are poised to consistently make runs to the knockout stages (and maybe win some games) could influence his thinking.
     
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  5. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In the Sum of All Fears (the book, not the terrible Ben Affleck movie), the Minnesota Vikings are going to win the Super Bowl before terrorists set a nuke off outside of the stadium.

    Naturally as a Vikings fan I found that fitting.
     
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  6. theboogeyman

    theboogeyman Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Their talent production was pretty consistent for the past few decades before their recent slip, but it was still pretty poor given their huge population and love for the sport. Maybe someone could say they were a top 12 team, but they clearly were not a team with the talent to make a deep run. Theyve been way behind countries like Uruguay and Croatia, who occasionally make deep runs when things come together.

    given that their youth teams and senior team are getting worse, they need a lot of improvement just to get back to where they’ve been.

    people talk about how the US underachieves, but at least we can point to basketball, football, baseball, and the Olympic sports. Mexico has nothing.
     
  7. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess the question I have is who is the young talent in Liga MX that we haven't seen with the national team yet? They didn't have a player on the World Cup team under the age of 23. Other than Lainez and Giménez (both of whom are abroad anyways), who are the young players from Liga MX who should have been on this roster but weren't?

    If there's decent young talent in Liga MX people should have been clamoring for their inclusion on the roster now.
     
  8. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The two big things are they need 1) more opportunities for young players in Liga MX and 2)more willingness to sell guys abroad for reasonable prices.
     
  9. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Their fans haven't had anything to cheer about in like 36 years, let them be delusional. How bad would we have been in '94 if there was social media? Luckily there wasn't anyone.

    I don't disagree about Croatia. It blew up in his face, but he basically should be on 3 points, which in a group that difficult isn't bad at all heading into the Morocco game. Deeply unlucky to not have a chance to advance after the Belgium performance.

    That's not, btw, why people rate him. He was fantastic in qualifying and damn good in general since '19. And how many people are really deifying him, at least on here? Most everyone here hates Canada and celebrated them getting bounced, I'm one of the few that actually liked the side, partly due to family ancestry etc. Not many deifying him as far as I can tell.
     
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  10. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interestingly there's some chatter that it was the stadiums full of people during the World Cup that sparked the protests in China. This is why Chinese TV is now doing their best to censor all crowd shots.
     
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  11. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    It's also worth noting that Flores was not developed by Mexico AT ALL, if he comes through, it's basically thanks to training in Canada, the Canary Islands and with Ipswich Town in England. None of it has been done in Mexico, he's basically a product of Canada and England, though his ancestry through his father is Mexican. So even there, Flores isn't born and raised and developed by Mexico and its club team culture.

    You can say that about plenty of dual nats of ours, and that's fine, Dest and Musah and Jedi are quite obviously more a credit to the Netherlands, and Italy and England than to us and its fine to argue that point if your an El Tri plan. But those are three guys, the entire pipeline is bubbling with prospects which is why we've begun to dominate at the youth levels in ways we've never had before.
     
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  12. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hope that this puts forward just how stupid awarding to Qatar was and that nothing this stupid is ever ever thought of again. But you know Saudi Arabia is gonna try now........and the UAE
     
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  13. BatigoL5

    BatigoL5 Member

    Apr 24, 2004
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    how did Tata play for a tie? he couldn't have. Mexico needed a win, a tie would have done them no good.

    Mexico attacked all they had. Mexico didn't hold back on this game.
    Lady luck was just not on their side today.
     
  14. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Pour one out for our neighbors to the North & South. RIP
     
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  15. BatigoL5

    BatigoL5 Member

    Apr 24, 2004
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't get the empty stadiums at all.
    Like why is that? It's the f'n World Cup!

    Keep watching all these games with empty seats.
    I was reading the other day that some games had paid fans to attend??
     
  16. Master O

    Master O Member+

    Jul 7, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mexico's going home
    They're going home
    They're going home
    Mexico's going home
     
  17. Master O

    Master O Member+

    Jul 7, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who cares about them!? :devilish:
     
  18. theboogeyman

    theboogeyman Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    I have a difficult time believing that these are the issues.

    people used to say similar stuff about the MLS, but they started giving young players PT and selling them to teams in Europe as soon as they were good enough.

    Our development improved when we had guys with good natural talent get consistent exposure to good coaching and decent competition from a young age. I don’t believe for a second that these Mexican clubs have a bunch of 16 year old Pulisics who turn into Arriolas due to lack of club PT at 17-20. The more likely explanation is that their guys aren’t that great, as Lainez is showing.
     
  19. glennaldo_sf

    glennaldo_sf Member+

    Houston Dynamo
    United States
    Nov 25, 2004
    Doha, Qatar
    Club:
    FL Fart Vang Hedmark
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Another impromptu match... a fellow Bigsoccerer whose identity I won't reveal had a spare ticket to Australia v Denmark (plus a couple of other matches), but this is the one I took up on - a famous win for the Socceroos over Denmark. The are now koalified for the 2nd round, but the Danes will roo a poor tournament all round....

     
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  20. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Member+

    Nov 10, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Fair enough but
    I do agree Mexico is in for a rough little stretch. Like you said they just don't have a lot of young talent, and even the talent they have who are in the early to mid 20s like Johan Vaszquez and Edson Alvarez have plateued or regressed in the last year or so. Missing thr Olympics and u 20 world cup will also hurt them a bit especially when our federation is recruiting Anthony Leone and Jonathan Gomez pretty hard.

    But my point was more you have to be willing to give legit chances to younger talent even if they are not up to the quality you expect... and I think going into the World Cup many Mexican fans got around to that and were actually pretty deflated with the roster
     
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  21. USOutlaw16

    USOutlaw16 Member+

    Green Bay Voyageurs
    United States
    Jan 22, 2011
    On the Gringo Wall of Shame
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's even historical context that shows little correlation between how qualifying goes and how well a team does once they get there, and not just in CONCACAF:

    To give a few examples:

    The 2002 US squad also finished 3rd in CONCACAF qualifying. They made the quarterfinals. The 2006 squad cruised through qualifying and were one of the first teams to book their ticket to Germany. They finished last in their group.

    Mexico needed GD to make the hex in 2010 and needed San Zusi to descend from the heavens in Panama City to even make the playoff. They made the Round of 16 each time.

    Serbia and Montenegro finished top of their qualifying group in 2006 qualifying conceding only once throughout the campaign in a group that featured Spain. The finished last among the 32 teams in Germany.

    Brazil lost six matches in 2002 qualifying, just as many losses as they've had in their other qualifying campaigns combined. In 1994 qualifying, they needed a result against Uruguay at the Maracana to book their ticket to the 1994 World Cup (Of course they got it, but needing just a point at the Maracana against Uruguay? Where have we heard that before?). They won the World Cup in both instances.

    Bulgaria's Cinderella run to the semifinals in 1994 doesn't happen if not for a French implosion in two straight matches, the latter of which featured a 90th minute winner by Kostadinov

    And even in this tournament, the US finished 3rd in CONCACAF qualifying just on goal difference, and Australia only qualified by going through two playoffs, the latter of which they only won in a shootout because their backup goalkeeper decided to go full galaxy brain and dance on the goal line to play mind games. They could potentially meet in the quarterfinal.

    You don't have to qualify in style. You just have to qualify.
     
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  22. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Those puns...
     
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  23. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    There are far too many factors.
    Koalified is gold.
     
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  24. glennaldo_sf

    glennaldo_sf Member+

    Houston Dynamo
    United States
    Nov 25, 2004
    Doha, Qatar
    Club:
    FL Fart Vang Hedmark
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gold and green....
     
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  25. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    More than anything young players need minutes and they don't really get alot of them in Liga MX. Who knows what would become of these players, but it definitely stunts their growth.

    But Liga MX pays very well and has inflated prices on alot of their guys. As a result alot of them don't go over to Europe and this also stunts their growth. MLS definitely made a deliberate choice to become a selling league and you can see it in the transfers that have gone through. The gap is closing, but Liga MX is still a better league overall than MLS for now. There's lots of Mexican players who could definitely go over to Europe at a young age if there was more of a realistic opportunity to do so.

    Mexico has a large population, a ton of investment in the game, and a country where soccer is by far the number one sport. These are all ingredients to be a world power in soccer, but clearly something is going wrong on the developmental pathway that needs to be addressed.
     

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