2022 MLS Week 33 Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by MassachusettsRef, Sep 29, 2022.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    09/30/22

    Toronto FC vs Inter Miami
    BMO Field (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Silviu Petrescu
    AR1: Oscar Mitchell-Carvalho
    AR2: Gianni Facchini
    4TH: Drew Fischer
    VAR: Geoff Gamble
    AVAR: Robert Schaap


    10/01/22

    New England Revolution vs Atlanta United
    Gillette Stadium (1:30PM ET)
    REF: Armando Villarreal
    AR1: Ian Anderson
    AR2: Jeffrey Greeson
    4TH: Tori Penso
    VAR: Fotis Bazakos
    AVAR: Robert Schaap

    Colorado Rapids vs FC Dallas
    Dick’s Sporting Goods Park (3:30PM ET)
    REF: Chris Penso
    AR1: Jeremy Hanson
    AR2: Jeff Hosking
    4TH: Malik Badawi
    VAR: Rosendo Mendoza
    AVAR: Mike Kampmeinert

    Charlotte vs Philadelphia Union
    Bank of America Stadium (5:30PM ET)
    REF: Jon Freemon
    AR1: Logan Brown
    AR2: Chris Elliott
    4TH: Rubiel Vazquez
    VAR: Alex Chilowicz
    AVAR: TJ Zablocki

    FC Cincinnati vs Chicago Fire
    TQL Stadium (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Lukasz Szpala
    AR1: Jason White
    AR2: Walt Heatherly
    4TH: Adam Kilpatrick
    VAR: Geoff Gamble
    AVAR: Robert Schaap

    Columbus Crew vs New York Red Bulls
    Lower.com Field (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Marcos DeOliveira
    AR1: Cory Richardson
    AR2: Corey Parker
    4TH: Chris Ruska
    VAR: Drew Fischer
    AVAR: Eric Weisbrod

    CF Montréal vs D.C. United
    Stade Saputo (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Ramy Touchan
    AR1: Micheal Barwegen
    AR2: Chantal Boudreau
    4TH: Pierre-Luc Lauziere
    VAR: Ismir Pekmic
    AVAR: Jonathan Johnson

    San Jose Earthquakes vs Minnesota United
    PayPal Park (10PM ET)
    REF: Nima Saghafi
    AR1: Andrew Bigelow
    AR2: Diego Blas
    4TH: Elijio Arreguin
    VAR: Edvin Jurisevic
    AVAR: Fabio Tovar

    Vancouver Whitecaps vs Austin FC
    BC Place (10PM ET)
    REF: Timothy Ford
    AR1: Lyes Arfa
    AR2: Ian McKay
    4TH: Michael Radchuk
    VAR: Fotis Bazakos
    AVAR: Mike Kampmeinert

    LA Galaxy vs Real Salt Lake
    Dignity Health Sports Park (10:30PM ET)
    REF: Kevin Stott
    AR1: Brian Poeschel
    AR2: Frank Anderson
    4TH: Victor Rivas
    VAR: Jorge Gonzalez
    AVAR: Craig Lowry


    10/02/22


    New York City FC vs Orlando City
    Red Bull Arena (1PM ET)
    REF: Joe Dickerson
    AR1: Cameron Blanchard
    AR2: Chris Wattam
    4TH: Luis Arroyo
    VAR: Rosendo Mendoza
    AVAR: Mike Kampmeinert

    Portland Timbers vs Los Angeles FC
    Providence Park (3PM ET)
    REF: Ismail Elfath
    AR1: Kathryn Nesbitt
    AR2: Kyle Atkins
    4TH: Allen Chapman
    VAR: Drew Fischer
    AVAR: Jonathan Johnson

    Sporting Kansas City vs Seattle Sounders
    Children’s Mercy Park (5PM ET)
    REF: Ted Unkel
    AR1: Corey Rockwell
    AR2: Ryan Graves
    4TH: Calin Radosav
    VAR: Ismir Pekmic
    AVAR: Craig Lowry

    Nashville vs Houston Dynamo
    GEODIS Park (8:30PM ET)
    REF: Guido Gonzales Jr
    AR1: Nick Uranga
    AR2: Jeremy Kieso
    4TH: Jeremy Scheer
    VAR: Alex Chilowicz
    AVAR: TJ Zablocki
     
  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would watch that LA Galaxy v RSL match if you can. Tomorrow's match in Canada might also be of interest.
     
  3. A66C

    A66C Member

    N/A
    United States
    Jan 3, 2022
    MLS just announced the nominees for year-end awards:

    Referee of the Year Nominees
    • Chapman, Allen
    • Elfath, Ismail
    • Villarreal, Armando (also nominated last year)
    Assistant Referee of the Year Nominees
    • Anderson, Ian (also nominated last year)
    • Elliott, Chris
    • Rockwell, Corey
    Do PRO put forward the nominations for these awards?
     
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  4. seattlebeach

    seattlebeach Member

    AFC Richmond
    May 11, 2015
    Not Seattle, Not Beach
    Noting a general lack of CR trialists this season.
     
  5. incognitoind

    incognitoind Member

    Apr 8, 2015
    The players and teams also get a vote
     
  6. incognitoind

    incognitoind Member

    Apr 8, 2015
    #6 incognitoind, Sep 30, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2022
    Allatin, broadley, Conger and one Canadian. I don’t think badawi did a game but that makes up the entire top tier of pro2
     
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  7. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To be completely fair, I wouldn't call Conger a trialist. That was such an unusual situation where he grew up in the US and was able to leverage his "citizen" status to come back and work matches since New Zealand's Covid restrictions have been so rigid. It was a lot easier for him to return to the US for both his AFC work and to continue doing matches here as he prepares for the World Cup.
     
  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe "trialist" has a very specific definition per the CBA, so it's not really a matter of opinion. That said, I didn't keep up on whether or not Conger counted toward the trialist spots.
     
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  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've been politely informed that this might be more theoretical than practical. Effectively--again, I've been told--PRO chooses the winners here now.
     
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  10. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    Honestly I’m happy to hear that. A referee’s primary job is not to make players, clubs, or media happy, and often their responsibilities run contrary to that. So I’m glad if their big rewards for the year rest with the people who know what they’re talking about when it comes to referees.

    That said, don’t PRO usually release the voting statistics for each referee and each category? They wouldn’t make those numbers up, would they?
     
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  11. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    The Toronto assignment definitely caught my eye… last non-decision-day game of the season, full Canadian crew, in Silviu’s “hometown”… idk if you have further confirmation, but it has a lot of the makings of a farewell game.

    You think the same for Stott? Do you expect this to be just his last regular season game (perhaps similar to Alan Kelly’s final regular season game being in New England before finishing off with a playoff run? Though I can’t say how intentional that was.)? Or are you expecting our first-ever MLS Cup Playoffs, after 26 years, to not feature a Kevin Stott whistle?
     
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  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not sure on the mechanics. Only reporting what I've been told and it is a trustworthy source.
     
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  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have the same suspicions (and no confirmed knowledge), so happy to reiterate yours.

    Rather than just suspicions, I have actual knowledge here and don't want to get ahead of anything formal, but expect some sort of announcement that answers all your questions pre-match tomorrow.
     
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  14. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I get your point, and I don’t disagree, but I would think at this level there are some “soft” skills that could make one ref stand out from another involving relationships with teams and players that are important, and that the clubs would be best positioned to give feedback on. Just because two refs north get all the technicalities correct doesn’t mean they are equal. If one is easier to work with that is a bonus in their favor.
     
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  15. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Now that the announcement is public, I would answer that yes, there's no way Stott has a whistle in the playoffs this year. Even if he hadn't chosen to retire from the field, this is only his 7th whistle of the year, and even someone of his status can't just be handed a playoff whistle for old-time's sake in this current environment after being VAR only for two-thirds of the season.
    That doesn't mean he won't be there as a VAR. That I can't say with any certainty.
     
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  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Correct. This match was targeted as a last on-field assignment so it could be at home for him. And he could--more or less--pick his crew. I think everyone (outside Stott) would have liked for it to be less consequential, so there maybe could be a bit more fanfare. But having it be a home Galaxy match was the priority.

    Right. In case some miss it (or that component isn't public yet) he has confirmed he intends to stay on in the league as a VAR. So this is "just" the on-field retirement, though obviously it's an understatement to say that's a huge thing. So all that means he could, theoretically, get a VAR assignment in the playoffs. But tomorrow night will be the last MLS match he ever referees.
     
  17. incognitoind

    incognitoind Member

    Apr 8, 2015
    He definitely did. The precedent of allowing foreign officials to come over and ref in the league is a dangerous one. Conger showed good faith by joining psra and counted against PROs allotment of non-BU official spots. PRO of course may offer anyone a contract should they choose. I do not know if he wishes to stay in the US now or not
     
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Really good SFP red card from C. Penso today. Just way too late, way too far from the ball, and way too high.
     
  19. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But other than that, how was the theatre Mrs. Lincoln?
    (But yes, good red)
     
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  20. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Freemon with an interesting one. Penalty and second caution for handling a shot on goal. It’s definitely one of those where the edict is hurtful and the definition is hazy. It was 100% an attempted shot on goal. And absolutely a punishable handball. But the shot was scuffed, had no power behind it and was never going in the net (it might not have even made it on goal). If Freemon doesn’t go yellow, it’s opening up wiggle room in other matches where there shouldn’t be any. But by going yellow, it just seems overly harsh and not commiserate with reality. One of those situations where more discretion would be a good thing, I feel. Of course, I’m England there isn’t a chance in hell it would be cautioned so another good reminder we have different rules applied in different competitions.

    For what it’s worth, exact same situation I’d do what Freemon did. I just wouldn’t feel great about it.
     
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  21. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    It’s a very interesting one. I actually think, at least from a non-technical perspective, the stronger case for SPA is that the ball was going to wide-open #18 rather than that it was a shot towards the net, that’s how bad it was shanked.
     
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  22. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    Lollll Stott was almost gonna let Chicharito get away with that dive. There was maybe a little bit of contact so I don’t know if PRO will actually like the simulation call here, but I’m certainly happy with it. He’s obviously embellishing the contact and trying to fool the referee into calling it.
     
  23. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #23 MassachusettsRef, Oct 1, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2022
    PRO’s opinion is, in this instance, completely irrelevant!

    I also think it’s a brilliant decision. Stott recognized Chicarito was going to stay down. That’s what made him pull the trigger. That’s what made it simulation (because it confirmed the attempt to deceive). Stott realized he was going to have to return to a prone Chicarito in 20 seconds after a no-call, which then undermines his authority and cast doubts on his judgment. Better just to basically say “**** you, here’s your yellow. We’ll wait for you to get up.”

    Also he didn’t just embellish. He walked into contact to create it.
     
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  24. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So…. that’s going to be a big talking point around the second penalty.
     
  25. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    Really unfortunate timing for the screen to malfunction. I think it says a lot about Stott’s character that he’s willing to change his decision based on the advice of the VAR without even seeing the video for himself.
     

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