2022 FIFA World Cup Qualifying - USA vs Mexico; November 12, 2021

Discussion in 'Mexico National Team' started by Juturna67, Nov 4, 2021.

  1. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2002
    I also think it's time we go with the Maza Rodriguez approach in youth teams and just go with more physical players and hope they turn out good. I think it just might be easier for a huge strong guy to get physical that the other way around. Not that all players can't do otherwise but still.

    I was thinking about this when I watched the Revelations Cup game Wednesday between Mexico and Colombia and seeing our goalkeeper that looks like Diego Lainez in 2015 or Luis Lopez. It reminds me of the 2015 U17 World Cup team that finished 4th in the World Cup. Still that team did good at the time but it was team fulled of thin and short players and now it's not surprising that most of those players didn't pan out even in Mexico. I know U17 players normally don't do so but even in Mexico is surprising. It can be overturned as Eduardo Aguirre has shown but players like Pablo Lopez, Alejandro Zamudio, Diego Cortes,Kevin Lara and Kevin Magaña, etc they all looked physically small and here we are. Hell the goalkeeping thing looks to have happened with Luis Lopez. I'm not saying its and end all be all but that teams should just take a look at it. I kind of laughed at the US poster that after the US did terrible in 2019 in Brasil that said "well at least we have Reyna" but right now he's winning with that argument and would definitely win with 2015. Not only is that team kicking our butt with the US, it might even do so with Mexico because of Zendejas.
     
  2. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2002
    The problem with this is and also with Martino is that he's not coming. Also probably no coach is. Mexico is not a premium destination and shit like that time that the Azteca booed Osorio in the farewell is going to make things tough for replacements. Same thing with how Mexico derailed Eriksson's career although it wasn't our fault. People in Mexico forget that a lot of people have money, not just the FMF and many will not see it as worth it.
     
  3. JJV1994

    JJV1994 Member+

    Jun 16, 2013
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Okay well then flip Villa for prime Cheech.
    Ie the fastest clocked player from the 2010 WC.
    What was the difference? Right. Technical Skills.
     
  4. LAFEFUT

    LAFEFUT Member

    Mexico
    Mar 13, 2018
    Actually, Mexico is top 10 in the world as far as head coach salary.
     
  5. Handsome Solo

    Handsome Solo Member+

    Mar 24, 2011
    Las Vegas
    Club:
    CDSC Cruz Azul
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    am I too optimistic to think that the US fed wishes to be where we’re at in terms of youth development?

    still think it’s a matter of just bad senior team management at this point

    we’ve been on a good path youth-wise for a while. Rome wasn’t built in a day type shit
     
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  6. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2002
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  7. LAFEFUT

    LAFEFUT Member

    Mexico
    Mar 13, 2018
    You are 100% correct and the Liga MX owners and Mexican media know this which why they are focused on that US dollar. Is that a bad thing for the Mexican football owners? After all, these are private businesses,
    .
     
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  8. JJV1994

    JJV1994 Member+

    Jun 16, 2013
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    #458 JJV1994, Nov 13, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2021
    100% Agree but the playing style cannot be a relay race either because we're not playing Graham Zusi or Michael Bradley's anymore from the U.S. nor Canada.
    Even against Jamaica,Trinidad. We've had hard games in the past because of the same reason.
    Morenos are just fast, it's that simple.
    Our playing style has to be possession based in order to compete.
     
  9. LAFEFUT

    LAFEFUT Member

    Mexico
    Mar 13, 2018
  10. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2002
    It's not just style just to flat out exporting players. It's was no surprise why Haret Ortega and even Luis Romo have interest from Euro clubs and others like Ponchito Gonzalez not so much. I don't think it has to be everything but they have to have bigger and also drop the "it's not fair" thing. Osorio got killed for being practical in that and not playing "short" players in key position but I guess something like that might be needed at least in youth teams. Like I said there is a reason why players like Pablo Lopez and Julio Gomez gave us joy at the time but now are just a nice memory.
     
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  11. JJV1994

    JJV1994 Member+

    Jun 16, 2013
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    #461 JJV1994, Nov 13, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2021
    Yup. Only thing that gets you around this is speed or great technical ability. You don't have that as a short player? Well then you're cut. That's what we need to do.

    Manlet Indio Alexis Sanchez was the premier league player of the year so those explosive short players will still exists for us. But not the Julio's or Lopez's.
     
  12. and1football

    and1football Member+

    Nov 10, 2009
    Club:
    CDSC Cruz Azul
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    There really no secret as to what needs to happen. All the big South American and European teams have players players that started playing in big leagues or semi big leagues or clubs from age 17-21. And we get super excited when we send a 25 year old abroad. No mames. Not that he won't develop but how better would he have developed if he started playing earlier in a big league?

    We know that Mexico has had very good youth and great prospects. Either Mexico has had bad luck because they don't pan out or it's mismanagement. We already know which one it is.
     
  13. Mr. P Mosh

    Mr. P Mosh Member+

    Aug 10, 2009
    Monterrey, NL, Mex
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Romo doesn't look good at the NT, and big part of it is he has to play so rigid at the mid. Charly looked better (at the attack) in his little cameo. Once again, when they bypass the midfield, they looked better. Lozano, Tecate & Raúl always seem to be isolated, but it's not a thing of this game, every single time.

    Chepo era 2.0.
     
  14. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2002


    Another thing that Tata killed today, the gloating from the Bronze medal by boosting their "it doesn't matter that we didn't qualify to the Olympic because our U23 is our senior team and better". Like I said, after losing the Gold Cup Final, Tata should have concentrated on this match because it was the most important match of the rest of the year. Now we lost first place and the result from the past games are devalued because we lost to the US 3 out of 3 and to make matters worse, the only other tough rival in CONCACAF got a point out of us in freaking Azteca. Martino has been pure shit in 2021.
     
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  15. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2002
    2021 under Tata

    -Lost against B team Wales.
    -Lost Nations League Final against the US after only getting to it with PKs with Costa Rica
    -Lost the Gold Cup Final against a US team with a B team while we had the majority of our A team sans Lozano and Raul.
    -Good tie and outplayed by Canada in Azteca
    -Brought back the Dos a Cero in a third loss against the US

    Positive
    -Wins in Costa Rica and El Salvador
    -?

    To make matters worse the best performance of the Senior NT was the one match where he left Lozano to coach and we crushed Panama with Lozano doing the real coaching. To be fair the US nations league match also had it's moments.
     
  16. JJV1994

    JJV1994 Member+

    Jun 16, 2013
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    I bet the reason why Tata started Chaka over Sanchez is to show us how he was right for picking him over Sanchez in the Nations League and that we are dumb and shouldn't question his decisions.

    That has to be the reason because Sanchez performed well against freaking Davies. So why would you not start him against a team who's going to try the same tactics?
     
  17. El Chanclas

    El Chanclas Member+

    Nov 21, 2008
    I’ve thought about this for many years like many of you, and I realize now that while the talk of genetics, nutrition and resources is important, the real difference is mentality. Not just of the players but of the FMF and business of Mexican soccer as a whole that has valued mining every possible cent out of its product over growing and developing it which would actually make it more valuable. How many partidos moleros can we get out of paisanos in the US? Why is that every young Mexican player with a hair of a chance of going to Europe all of a sudden signs an extension with his current Liga MX club? How many tournaments can be created between Liga MX and MLS clubs to suck more pennies out of the Mex/US rivalry?

    I have no solutions. I’m just a life long fan that will ride the train as long as I can through it all. What I see though is cause for concern. Not only is Mexico getting outplayed on the field by the US, it’s getting outplayed off of it and it wouldn’t surprise me to see Mexico lose its 2026 games to the US because of the Grito. The only thing that might help keep things close is Mexico poaching US born, bred and developed Mexican players that get overlooked or mistreated in the US system. Perhaps these kids can make it without getting sucked into the system keeping our current youth players trapped.
     
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  18. nicamex1935

    nicamex1935 Member+

    Jul 10, 2007
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    #468 nicamex1935, Nov 13, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2021
    That was a pretty shocking performance but there’s a lot of hyperbole in the fallout. We also lost in similar fashion 2-0 to the US in 2013. The circumstances were pretty dire back then for Mexico, unlike tonight where we went into this one with the lead in the table.

    That was an awful 2nd half. We’ve also had terrible and embarrassing performances in previous years including with our previous manager who folks are starting to look fondly on for some reason relative to current management.

    The difference here is we can be pretty insecure about the usa national team and it’s evident by the reactions. They’ve been suffering for years and were finally given a reprieve in 2021.

    They’ve done a lot of good to get to this point but they’re far from a model to follow as far as infrastructure is concerned. Their own fan base is extremely critical of the racket of youth soccer, college soccer, and so on.

    We keep bringing up what we did in the Olympics but we quickly forget how poorly we looked against Japan in the group stage. They played us out of the park, pressing relentlessly, making us look slow and uncoordinated. Sound familiar? The final score was flattering for us in that one too. We’re prone to either some good or not so good performances. How we respond after games like tonight is what matters.

    We’ve been in far worse spots before. We’ll see if Tata ever learns from all the bad in 2021 (it wasn’t just the losses to the US) and if we correct course.

    I look forward to the game in March at the Azteca.

    Some of the other underlying problems on being stingy with exporting young talent as an example is worth mentioning. You can already see the difference in someone like Johan. Players like Charly should have made the jump a while ago.
     
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  19. TheDude47

    TheDude47 Member+

    Jun 17, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    At this point though, it seems Tata has made a bunch of bad decisions, this isn't his first mistake. Coaches have been let go for much less. I don't know if he should be fired or not, because then you run into the problem of who do you bring in? BUT at some point playing the same team 3 times I would expect something different each time, not only the loss, the tactics were exactly the same each and every time.
     
  20. metalmaster

    metalmaster Member+

    Jul 7, 2004
    In the wrong hood
    Club:
    Hakoah Maccabi Ramat Gan
    What do you mean?. There is the prestigious Gold Cup man..
    They have been selling shit to paisas in the US for decades, and they keep buying . The business model is working, so don't expect too many changes, if any at all.
    You can export Mexican players when the talent does not match the price. It is that simple.
     
  21. la fresa

    la fresa Member+

    Oct 31, 2005
    texas
    Club:
    Serbian White Eagles
    I really don’t think we lack talent in the way it’s being made to appear. There’s several players who look way way worse from the start of this era to now, and it can’t just all be bad form especially if they’re not similarly bad for their clubs. Even Chuky looks off and unmotivated these days. Have to believe there’s something awry in the locker room with the coach who has proven to be hardheaded and seems to enjoy projecting the idea of being a stern difficult person to interact with. Still doing well on this version of the hex just doesn’t cut it, probably the worst Honduran and Costa Rica teams since the 90s
     
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  22. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2002
    The main difference being that the US in 2013 wasn't loaded with playing talent in good euro teams. Remember the cap to Julian Green who was an academy player in Bayern Munich and now they have 1st team player in teams like Chelsea, Juventus, etc. People sour grapes but if we had a player like Pulisic in a UCL winning team and playing like Chelsea, we would be all over the same way we were when Chicharito scored in the QF against Chelsea or with Edson in Ajax.

    The other thing is that while it's true that Mexico's World Cup qualification hasn't correlated with the performance in the World Cup, at least with Mexico it has always been with a different coach. In 2002 we had the crisis but it was with Meza when the World Cup was coached by Aguirre. In 2010 it was Eriksson when the World Cup we went with Aguirre. In 2013 it was Chepo but we went to the World Cup with Piojo.

    2021 has been terrible. Mexico hasn't played well and if you take out the US we also have that performance against Canada in the Gold Cup and in Azteca. There is also Wales. Mexico has looked bad against all the "good" opposition in 2021.
     
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  23. Joaquin Medina

    Jun 1, 2014
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    This is the same story every year before the World Cup. Mexico starts looking like ass in the final year. Rinse and repeat.
     
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  24. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2002
    Mexico didn't look like ass in 2005, 2009 or 2017. And in those other years they did, they had a coaching change before their improvement.
     
  25. Plutarco Elias Calles

    Atletico San Pancho
    Mexico
    Sep 4, 2021
    I'm surprised no one has pointed out how much hungrier and healthier the US locker team looks. They look like they want it more every game we've played them and there seems to be a stronger comoditry with the staff. Our team looks old and tired and Tata looks like he doesn't give two shits anymore IMO. There really aren't any good Mexican coaches, but no country wins the WC with a foreign coach. At this point I rather we go down with Lozano and young players as a learning experience.

    Kind of miss La Volpe running things in Liga MX because at least he would debut young players. Even Edson got his chance from him. Mexican football needs major changes over night that I know won't come. We're already a few years behind the nads in making those changes. Stagnation at it's finest.
     

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