2022-23 England Referee Discussion [EPL/EFL/Cups+][Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Jul 27, 2022.


Is Liverpool v Tottenham a big game?

Poll closed Nov 5, 2022.
  1. Yes

    10 vote(s)
  2. No

    0 vote(s)
  1. mfw13

    mfw13 Member+

    Jul 19, 2003
    Newcastle United FC
    Any commentary on the Southampton-Newcastle Carabao Cup semi today? Had two VAR decisions and a sending off.....
  2. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    4:46 was very interesting. Definitely studs up, just not certain the contact was with the studs.

    I'm not certain I ever saw a handball on Newcastle's disallowed goal.

    75' Southampton's disallowed goal was correct - handling
    83" I'd love to see a closer view of the contact to the chest - possible VC but I never saw a good view.
    87' Easy second caution

    Atwell did as good of job as I've seen an English ref do this year especially with SPA.

    Newcastle are an odd duck. Tremendous defense, but if they don't find goal scorers, they won't finish top 10. That game could have been 5-0
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Highlights here:

    28' seems like a pretty easy DOGSO red card... in any other country, of course. This is the player that ultimately gets sent off later on a 2CT.

    I don't think much else seems controversial. The Newcastle goal disallowed is weird because you never see a perfect angle, but I think everything points to that being a handball. You said there were two VAR decisions but I only see one...

    Also, Attwell's body language and mannersisms/mechanics. I know I'm howling at the moon at this point, but I'm just waiting for the next English referee who looks like he actually wants to be in charge of a match. From the VAR call to the double yellow cards after the scuffle to pretty much everything else... it's just sooooo meek and in the background. I realize not everyone can have the same individual approach but that's part of the point here... right now, everyone does have this approach.
  4. mfw13

    mfw13 Member+

    Jul 19, 2003
    Newcastle United FC
    My bad.....I was in fact referring to the incident you describe as being a "VAR incident" because many people thought that its was not handball and were wondering why VAR didn't get involved
  5. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    "Big" matches:

    Liverpool - Man City (Community Shield): Pawson
    Chelsea - Tottenham: Taylor
    Man Utd - Liverpool: Oliver
    Everton - Liverpool: Taylor
    Man Utd - Arsenal: Tierney
    Arsenal - Tottenham: Taylor
    Man City - Man Utd: Oliver
    Arsenal - Liverpool: Oliver
    Liverpool - Man City: Taylor
    Man Utd - Tottenham: Hooper
    Chelsea - Arsenal: Oliver
    Liverpool - Tottenham: A. Madley
    Arsenal - Newcastle: A. Madley
    Man Utd - Man City: Attwell
    Tottenham - Arsenal: Pawson
    Arsenal - Man Utd: Taylor
    Liverpool - Chelsea: Oliver
    Man City - Arsenal (FA Cup): Tierney

    Distribution of these matches in the EPL:

    Oliver: 5
    Taylor: 5
    A. Madley: 2
    Attwell: 1
    Hooper: 1
    Pawson: 1
    Tierney: 1
  6. Mikael_Referee

    Jun 16, 2019
    Absolutely appalling Coote who ignores two (IMO three) clear red cards for Liverpool in the ten minutes vs. Brighton.
  7. TheRealBilbo

    TheRealBilbo Member+

    Apr 5, 2016
    Hope I’m getting this right….

    Konate on MacAllister in 82’ wasn’t even called a foul. Could be DOGSO. Total miss. Arm to back of neck and hip to back.

    Fabinho stomps Ferguson’s Achilles and gets a yellow.

    Robertson’s yellow seemed about right.
  8. Barciur

    Barciur Member+

    Apr 25, 2010
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    There was a red card in Wrexham vs Sheffield United game for an incident that happened behind the referee. The referee was alerted to the incident by the 4th official. The referee's red card was a circle.

    The magic of the cup!
    JasonMa repped this.
  9. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    The noncall on the handball was criminal given the outcome.
    The ball completely changed direction. How did all officials miss it. VAR would have gotten that and Wrexham would have had a penalty.
  10. Mikael_Referee

    Jun 16, 2019
    Screenshot 2023-01-29 at 18.45.55.jpg
  11. USSF REF

    USSF REF Member+

    Leeds (for now)
    United States
    Nov 6, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think there was a case for a DOGSO-F against Sheffield for a foul just outside of the penalty area in the Wrexham game. There is a case that the defender to his right was close to level, but I also thought Mullin had the inside position and would not have been caught. A caution seemed like enough for everyone there though...

    Apparently, the red that did come was for a kick-out that the 4th saw. I didn't see any clear replay of the incident, although the ESPN team said there was one look at one point that confirmed it and the red card was correctly advised by the 4th.

    The handball probably is given with VAR, but I think in real-time if it looks like the defender is trying to draw the hand back or toward the body it's likely to give the benefit of the doubt unless you're SURE on first look that it was handball. Seems like a miss here, but I'm not going to crucify a ref for not wanting to award a penalty in that circumstance if he wasn't SURE.

    After the game, Mullin was Claiming that Palmer's shot went into the goal from the crossbar, but the pictures clearly showed that to be erroneous, it was never a goal.
    JasonMa repped this.
  12. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Circular red cards are used in case the game is on B&W TVs to distinguish them from the yellow cards that are always rectangular. This game was in Wrexham, probably plenty of B&W TVs still in use around there! :)

    Mi3ke repped this.
  13. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
  14. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    Thanks for that, I had no idea!

    I want one like this:

  15. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One of the more infamous incidents in Premiership football, the Lee Bowyer/Keiron Dyer fight, also featured a circular red card.
  16. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I thought the round ones were so that refs who were blind could tell the red from the yellow.
  17. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Speaking of blind refs, how was the foul in the penalty area missed in the Derby:WHU FA Cup match.
    Missed ball, wipes opponent, in own PA - play on.

    Horrible view at 5:30 on video - the Derby player goes down after that contact.
  18. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Matchweek 22

    Chelsea - Fulham
    Referee: Stuart Attwell. Assistants: Darren Cann, James Mainwaring. Fourth official: Jarred Gillett. VAR: Michael Salisbury. Assistant VAR: Matthew Wilkes.

    Everton - Arsenal
    Referee: David Coote. Assistants: Lee Betts, Mark Scholes. Fourth official: Andy Madley. VAR: John Brooks. Assistant VAR: Darren Cann.

    Aston Villa - Leicester
    Referee: Darren England. Assistants: Dan Cook, Dan Robathan. Fourth official: Robert Jones. VAR: Stuart Attwell. Assistant VAR: Nick Hopton.

    Brentford - Southampton
    Referee: Darren Bond. Assistants: Adrian Holmes, Matthew Wilkes. Fourth official: Michael Salisbury. VAR: Craig Pawson. Assistant VAR: James Mainwaring.

    Brighton - Bournemouth
    Referee: Michael Oliver. Assistants: Stuart Burt, Simon Bennett. Fourth official: James Linington. VAR: Jarred Gillett. Assistant VAR: Natalie Aspinall.

    Man Utd - Crystal Palace
    Referee: Andre Marriner. Assistants: Simon Long, Scott Ledger. Fourth official: Josh Smith. VAR: Tony Harrington. Assistant VAR: Harry Lennard.

    Wolves - Liverpool
    Referee: Paul Tierney. Assistants: Constantine Hatzidakis, Marc Perry. Fourth official: Matt Donohue. VAR: Lee Mason. Assistant VAR: Timothy Wood.

    Newcastle - West Ham
    Referee: Peter Bankes. Assistants: Eddie Smart, Nick Greenhalgh. Fourth official: Simon Hooper. VAR: Neil Swarbrick. Assistant VAR: Richard West.

    Nottingham Forest - Leeds
    Referee: Robert Jones. Assistants: Neil Davies, Wade Smith. Fourth official: Craig Pawson. VAR: Darren England. Assistant VAR: Dan Cook.

    Tottenham - Man City
    Referee: Andy Madley. Assistants: Harry Lennard, Nick Hopton. Fourth official: Graham Scott. VAR: Paul Tierney. Assistant VAR: Simon Bennett.

    Man Utd - Leeds
    Referee: Simon Hooper. Assistants: Adrian Holmes, Marc Perry. Fourth official: Thomas Bramall. VAR: John Brooks. Assistant VAR: Stuart Burt.
  19. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Does anyone know what's up with Mike Dean? Haven't seen his name for a while.
  20. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    He retired last year and then came out of retirement to be VAR when they need him.
  21. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    I know this. What I mean is that it looks like he hasn’t been VAR recently.
  22. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    But my point is he is only VAR if they need him. If they have enough bodies, he is not assigned.
  23. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
  24. mfw13

    mfw13 Member+

    Jul 19, 2003
    Newcastle United FC
    VAR upgraded a YC to a RC for violent conduct in 82' of Newcastle-Southampton today.

    Haven't seen the incident....anybody have opinions on whether the upgrade was justified (i.e. a clear and obvious error)?
  25. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's a red in MLS but I've seen many examples where it wasn't C&O in England. Perhaps an aftermath of PMGOL admitting an error from the Liverpool match when it comes to SFP.


    The other thing I noticed is that he was shown the perfect angle in slow motion but for whatever reason the VAR shows a super zoomed out angle to show the full speed.

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