2022-23 England Referee Discussion [EPL/EFL/Cups+][Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Jul 27, 2022.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sport Billy repped this.
  2. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    I will try a new way to keep track of "big" matches.

    - The following matches are "big" no matter what: Man City - Liverpool, Liverpool - Chelsea, Chelsea - Man City, Man City - Man Utd, Man Utd - Liverpool, Liverpool - Everton, Chelsea - Tottenham, Tottenham - Arsenal, Arsenal - Chelsea

    - From Matchweek 10 onward, matches between the top 3 are "big".

    - From Matchweek 20 onward, matches between the top 4 are "big".

    - From Matchweek 25 onward, matches between the top 5 and between the bottom 3 are "big".

    - From Matchweek 30 onward, matches between the top 6 and between the bottom 4 are "big" (unless the match becomes less important, for example because one of the teams is already relegated).

    - From Matchweek 35 onward, matches with an implication on the title, top 4, or relegation are "big".

    The hope is that this will be more reflective of "big" matches than using the static "Big 6" list.
     
  3. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's an improvement. I think any match between Man City, Liverpool, Spurs, and Chelsea should be treated as big no matter what. For example Spurs play Man City in MD7, but it wouldn't fall in your list. I'd argue the same thing with Arsenal v Liverpool for example. I'll let others put their opinion in.
     
  4. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The only thing I’d add is that after MW20 (2nd half of the season, any matches involving teams either in the top 4 or relegation spots OR within six points of those spots should be considered a “big game”. Those games are “six pointers” that can have a big impact on UCL or relegation spots.
     
  5. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Very good! I am pleased to see this modification, as it will more correctly reflect the realities rather than just the big name clubs against each other. Interesting to see how it pans out compared to your previous system.
    It will be especially revealing now that 4 of the experienced guys have retired. Certainly Dean and Atkinson always got a good share of those high profile matches.
    Also the change in the boss position at PGMOL could bring a new perspective as well.

    PH
     
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  6. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    There are certainly good arguments for why these matches are "big" (same goes for local derbies). However, I do not want the list to get too long - the aim is to have about 40-50 "big" matches in the whole season.
     
  7. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
  8. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    Who is going to replace Jon Moss in our complaints?
     
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  9. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Time will certainly tell! Just like Moss replaced Mason.
    But there is always our old standby Stuart Attwell, although I also think Coote and Kavanaugh are contenders!

    PH
     
  10. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  11. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    i think part of my attraction with Moss was the unworthiness of his appointments. Like “what is this guy doing on this game?”
     
  12. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Don't you really mean "on any EPL game?"

    PH
     
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  13. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The new Nike ref kits look better on the officials than they do in photos. But I will say that Jon Moss probably picked the right year to retire, as the shirts wouldn’t look as good on the, uh, stockier refs. ;)
     
  14. SirFozzie

    SirFozzie Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 17, 2001
    Franklin, MA
  15. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some assignments of note from England as I was flipping through ESPN+ during my Covid isolation.
    • Anthony Taylor was in the middle for the Southampton-Villarreal friendly at St. Mary’s.
    • Simon Bennett (one of Michael Oliver’s assistants) is running a line for Middlesboro-Norwich City.
    • Graham Scott has the whistle for Birmingham City-Luton Town.
     
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If he had booked him for the second instance of kicking the ball away, sure.

    Waiting until he actually got stepped on and then, I imagine, booking him for simulation or game disrepute? Not as good. Seems like it works here and understanding match context probably helps explain things. But strictly speaking, that second caution doesn’t look good with the benefit of replay.
     
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  17. LampLighter

    LampLighter Red Card

    Bugeaters FC
    Apr 13, 2019
    I disagree I think absolutely every fan would be cheering this because they're sick of players acting like numpties and getting away with it. I mean come on, he's faking that crap we all know it.
     
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This potential City goal is an interesting one for VAR. Seems clearly onside but then the question of a foul on the goalkeeper comes into play.
     
  19. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What do we disagree on?

    He should have been sent off for kicking the ball away the second time. Fine.

    But he clearly gets stepped on. Studs onto foot. It’s there on video. We normally punish that with a caution for the guy who ran over to step on an opponent.

    You can be happy with the result without believing the referee handled it perfectly.
     
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  20. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Wow. Huge call in the community shield.
    Goal called off. VAR reviews and it is shown to be onside.
    Little discussion however on keeper possession
     
  21. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’d like to think that the combination of the offside and the check on a potential foul caused the lengthy review. For the record, I think the right outcome (City goal) eventually occurred. For me, Adrian never had possession and was not fouled.
     
  22. LampLighter

    LampLighter Red Card

    Bugeaters FC
    Apr 13, 2019
    I guess that's what we disagree on, I think the referee handled it perfectly haha. I agree that it's not exactly the best looking encounter of all time. It's just the result I would prefer when a player is acting like an ass.
     
  23. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It’s actually a fascinating test case for VAR.

    Because offside was the decision, Pawson never made a public determination on goalkeeper possession. So the decision defaults to no call and the VAR then needs clear and obvious possession to call off the goal (once it’s shown to be onside).

    If Pawson had whistled and called the possession foul over the offside, I think the goal never gets awarded.

    There’s this grey zone after delayed offside flags where no one really knows how it’s supposed to be handled (outside penalty decisions).
     
  24. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    If the referee handles it correctly, the step on never occurs
     
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  25. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    That’s handling
     

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