2021 MLS Week 25 Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by ManiacalClown, Sep 14, 2021.

  1. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    09/14/21

    Columbus Crew vs New York Red Bulls
    Lower.com Field (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Jair Marrufo
    AR1: Peter Balciunas
    AR2: Jeffrey Greeson
    4TH: Fotis Bazakos
    VAR: Carol Anne Chenard
    AVAR: Craig Lowry

    New York City FC vs FC Dallas
    Red Bull Arena (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Joe Dickerson
    AR1: Claudiu Badea
    AR2: Gjovalin Bori
    4TH: Ismail Elfath
    VAR: Jorge Gonzalez
    AVAR: Jose Da Silva

    Toronto FC vs Inter Miami CF
    BMO Field (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Ramy Touchan
    AR1: Oscar Mitchell-Carvalho
    AR2: Gianni Facchini
    4TH: Silviu Petrescu
    VAR: Geoff Gamble
    AVAR: Robert Schaap
     
  2. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    09/15/21

    Atlanta United vs FC Cincinnati
    Mercedes-Benz Stadium (7PM ET)
    REF: Drew Fischer
    AR1: Matthew Nelson
    AR2: Ryan Graves
    4TH: Ted Unkel
    VAR: Alan Kelly
    AVAR: Nick Uranga

    D.C. United vs Chicago Fire
    Audi Field (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Dave Gantar
    AR1: Adam Wienckowski
    AR2: Corey Parker
    4TH: Ismail Elfath
    VAR: Jose Carlos Rivero
    AVAR: Eric Weisbrod

    Orlando City vs CF Montréal
    Exploria Stadium (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Rubiel Vazquez
    AR1: Jose Da Silva
    AR2: Jeffrey Swartzel
    4TH: Marcos DeOliveira
    VAR: Chris Penso
    AVAR: Kyle Longville

    Sporting Kansas City vs Minnesota United
    Children’s Mercy Park (8:30PM ET)
    REF: Robert Sibiga
    AR1: Kyle Atkins
    AR2: Logan Brown
    4TH: Elvis Osmanovic
    VAR: Sorin Stoica
    AVAR: Jozef Batko

    Austin FC vs Los Angeles FC
    Q2 Stadium (9PM ET)
    REF: Tim Ford
    AR1: Adam Garner
    AR2: Diego Blas
    4TH: Guido Gonzales Jr
    VAR: Rosendo Mendoza
    AVAR: Jonathan Johnson

    Portland Timbers vs Colorado Rapids
    Providence Park (10PM ET)
    REF: Armando Villarreal
    AR1: Jeremy Hanson
    AR2: Corey Rockwell
    4TH: Baldomero Toledo
    VAR: Jon Freemon
    AVAR: Joshua Patlak

    LA Galaxy vs Houston Dynamo
    Dignity Health Sports Park (10:30PM ET)
    REF: Kevin Stott
    AR1: Chantal Boudreau
    AR2: Eduardo Mariscal
    4TH: Victor Rivas
    VAR: Younes Marrakchi
    AVAR: Felisha Mariscal

    San Jose Earthquakes vs Real Salt Lake
    PayPal Park (10:30PM ET)
    REF: Nima Saghafi
    AR1: Cameron Blanchard
    AR2: Chris Elliott
    4TH: Alex Chilowicz
    VAR: Daniel Radford
    AVAR: Mike Kampmeinert
     
  3. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    thoughts on this VAR handling decision in Austin? From the angle they kept showing it was hard to see exactly where it hit him. Is the sleeve still not a foul?

    It seems to me if it takes than long and that many looks that it's not obvious.
     
  4. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's the bottom of the armpit. On a standard jersey, the bottom of the sleeve extends past the armpit. It seems to hit just above the elbow, but the angle shown to us doesn't make that super clear. I'd say based on guideance that a handball offense is the preferred decision, but I'm not sure PRO will say clear and obvious error.

    But then again, at this point I have no idea with handball.
     
    GlennAA11 repped this.
  5. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Its on in Portland. 3 yellows in 3 minutes. You've got Blanco going to the throat of Galvan and picking up a yellow, Trusty then sends a message with a hard foul, and then Portland responds with a hard foul of their own (missed who committed it).
     
  6. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tuiloma got the other Portland yellow, then 8-9 minutes later commits a borderline yellow offense followed by a borderline red offense in less than 5 seconds and gets his second yellow.
     
  7. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You undersold that. A clear yellow followed by an orange in about 1.5 seconds!
     
  8. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, on replay that yellow offense was less borderline than I first thought.

    And all while already on a yellow!
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don’t see how the second one is anything but straight red. Like a very dark version of it, too.

    For that reason, I have to believe the first offence is technically the one that was punished. Otherwise I’d say it’s a missed OFR to not upgrade to straight red. As it stands, I hope both incidents are written up and sanctioned. That second tackle is atrocious (and, honestly, you can make a case for VC on the first—he has no real need to step on him there; it’s not really a challenge).
     
    JasonMa repped this.
  10. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was trying to factor my bias out :ROFLMAO:
     
  11. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Definitely undersold those. I had a straight red on the first one, and a VERY straight red on the second one.

    The first one was a clear stand on the leg. I agree with MassRef on that, and probably am more strongly in the VC camp than he is. He knew what he was doing. The second one was a two-footed sweep. The final result - Tuiloma's services no longer being required for the rest of the evening's festivities - was met, but it really should have been a straight red for either one of those items.
     
    JasonMa and MassachusettsRef repped this.
  12. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd


    I get the camera angle is there, but you have to sometimes use common sense when it comes to VAR. Use context clues to piece things together.

    That's a goal in Toronto. The keeper, who makes the save with his hands, has his hands, practically, halfway inside the net. It's a goal.
     
  13. pr0ner

    pr0ner Member+

    Jan 13, 2007
    Alexandria, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Please tell me which part of the video shows the ball clearly and obviously over the line. You can't use "context clues" if the standard is "clear and obvious".
     
    JasonMa repped this.
  14. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    I just finished a webinar and found this thread on here. In the RSL-SJ game from this week, the goal SJ scored to make it 2-2, Nima Saghafi didn't even let RSL get back on their own half before blowing the whistle for kickoff and SJ directly scored a goal 10-15 seconds later. I guess he felt they were taking too long to get back, so three defenders were still on SJ half near the midline and he restarted play, kicker passed through the 3 slackers to an attacker who ran up the field and scored.

    It was one of the weirder things I've seen allowed in a pro game. Does anyone know if Saghafi got any reprimand for this? RSL ended up winning 4-3 but I had to dig this up and see if anyone remembers. I wonder if it was even shown on replay. We got to see a skycam of the play.
     

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