2021 MLS Week 15 Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by ManiacalClown, Jul 24, 2021.

  1. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    07/15/21 07/24/21

    Atlanta United vs Columbus Crew
    Mercedes-Benz Stadium (3:30PM ET)
    REF: Robert Sibiga
    AR1: Jason White
    AR2: Adam Wienckowski
    4TH: Elijio Arreguin
    VAR: Sorin Stoica
    AVAR: Jozef Batko

    Chicago Fire vs Toronto FC
    Soldier Field (8PM ET)
    REF: Victor Rivas
    AR1: Peter Manikowski
    AR2: Eric Boria
    4TH: Ismir Pekmic
    VAR: Malik Badawi
    AVAR: Fabio Tovar

    Minnesota United vs Portland Timbers
    Allianz Field (8PM ET)
    REF: Marcos DeOliveira
    AR1: Andrew Bigelow
    AR2: Jose Da Silva
    4TH: JC Griggs
    VAR: Jon Freemon
    AVAR: Jeff Muschik

    FC Dallas vs LA Galaxy
    Toyota Stadium (8:30PM ET)
    REF: Silviu Petrescu
    AR1: Claudiu Badea
    AR2: Chris Elliott
    4TH: Elton Garcia
    VAR: Carol Anne Chenard
    AVAR: Jonathan Johnson

    Nashville vs FC Cincinnati
    Nissan Stadium (8:30PM ET)
    REF: Guido Gonzales Jr
    AR1: Matthew Nelson
    AR2: Kevin Klinger
    4TH: Baldomero Toledo
    VAR: Daniel Radford
    AVAR: Joshua Patlak

    Real Salt Lake vs Colorado Rapids
    Rio Tinto Stadium (10PM ET)
    REF: Fotis Bazakos
    AR1: Corey Rockwell
    AR2: TJ Zablocki
    4TH: Brandon Stevis
    VAR: Kevin Terry Jr
    AVAR: Jeremy Hanson

    San Jose Earthquakes vs Houston Dynamo
    PayPal Park (10PM ET)
    REF: Ted Unkel
    AR1: Cory Richardson
    AR2: Apolinar Mariscal
    4TH: Matt Thompson
    VAR: Chico Grajeda
    AVAR: Mike Kampmeinert

    Los Angeles FC vs Vancouver Whitecaps
    Banc of California Stadium (10:30PM ET)
    REF: Kevin Stott
    AR1: Diego Blas
    AR2: Ryan Graves
    4TH: Michael Radchuk
    VAR: Jose Carlos Rivero
    AVAR: Felisha Mariscal
     
  2. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ted Unkel went down after colliding with a San Jose player. Left the game bleeding. Matt Thompson has taken over the whistle as of the 10th minute. He has no prior experience as an MLS middle.
     
  3. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ted has returned, apparently as fourth official now for the duration. Had previously heard that Kampmeinert would be coming down from the VOR instead so this is good news.
     
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  4. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Kampmeinert may actually be out there as 4th after all, but we did see Ted on TV at the start of the half.

    Whoever that was with the sub board was not Ted. If that's Kampmeinert, he has more hair than I remember.
     
  5. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    well, that's certainly an exciting debut! Disallowed goal (correctly) and then send off in stoppage time
     
  6. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wonder how @ManiacalClown will handle that one in his DB.
     
  7. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Poorly, as always.
     
    IASocFan repped this.
  8. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    07/25/21

    New England Revolution vs CF Montréal
    Gillette Stadium (6PM ET)
    REF: Alex Chilowicz
    AR1: Nick Uranga
    AR2: Brian Dunn
    4TH: Matthew Corrigan
    VAR: Malik Badawi
    AVAR: Tom Supple

    New York City FC vs Orlando City
    Yankee Stadium (6PM ET)
    REF: Rosendo Mendoza
    AR1: Peter Balciunas
    AR2: Ian McKay
    4TH: Tori Penso
    VAR: Jorge Gonzalez
    AVAR: Eric Weisbrod

    Inter Miami vs Philadelphia Union
    DRV PNK Stadium (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Joe Dickerson
    AR1: Jeffrey Greeson
    AR2: Gjovalin Bori
    4TH: Elijio Arreguin
    VAR: Sorin Stoica
    AVAR: Jozef Batko

    D.C. United vs New York Red Bulls
    Audi Field (8PM ET)
    REF: Alan Kelly
    AR1: CJ Morgante
    AR2: Ben Pilgrim
    4TH: Kevin Broadley
    VAR: Daniel Radford
    AVAR: Matthew Nelson

    Seattle Sounders vs Sporting Kansas City
    Lumen Field (9PM ET)
    REF: Ramy Touchan
    AR1: Ian Anderson
    AR2: Jeff Hosking
    4TH: Michael Radchuk
    VAR: Chico Grajeda
    AVAR: Mike Kampmeinert
     
  9. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just watched the San Jose/Houston game that Thompson took over. He had some good decisions, and a surprising amount of confidence and composure for an MLS debut under strange circumstances. But there were a few missed throw ins/goal kicks/ck's that seemed like they were awarded to the wrong team. Also, Thompson had very strange positioning in dynamic play. He kept getting sucked way close to his ARs, and then on crosses was looking through the whole field with his AR behind him. There were several times on counters where he seemed to realize this, and change his running from North/South to suddenly a hard 90 degree turn and go totally sideways to move wide, which just put him behind the play. Also, I think that happened on a few of the critical plays. The disallowed goal was a great example. Richardson nailed the call, but Thompson was in a very bad position to help, as he had moved (iirc) totally around the penalty arc to very similar angle as Richardson. If gets more middles, and doesn't fix this, there will be misses in the box--missed handballs, missed CK's (like he had today), missed fouls.
    I also understand the red card, but given the atmosphere, it just felt harsh to me. I don't know. If he didn't give it, would the VAR have sent it down? Hard to say.

    Anyway, that was a solid debut...if the main critiques of a 4th hopping in a game are positioning and restarts, that's a pretty good performance.
     
  10. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Anyone have a link to video of the send off? Seems to me it is pretty courageous to be willing to pull the red in an unplanned debut rather than wimping out and using VAR as a crutch.
     
  11. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    https://www.mlssoccer.com/video/red-card-carlos-fierro-san-jose-earthquakes-97th-minute
    The video doesn't show it, but he sent off the San Jose (blue) player for the kick out. In the game, this was like the last push, end of injury time, in a tie game, and the crowd was going nuts, and it was cheap foul to stop the counter (not a DOGSO, but certainly cynical and caution worthy). I'm not saying Feirro should not have been sent off, but in real time it did feel harsh to me.
     
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  12. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Send off seems right to me. Wasn’t just a kick out as he whipped him to the ground. I think VAR should have sent it down if he hadn’t shown red in the first instance.
     
    fairplayforlife repped this.
  13. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    26 games over two weeks - 4 reviews

    KC vs San Jose weird PK reversal
    Austin vs Seattle Offside
    LAFC Offside (Once again Stott was fun to listen too)
    New England Offside
     
  14. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    The foul is interesting because of the discussion of ball contact. While they are clearly understanding the nuance of the importance of reaching the ball first on this play, I fear that some watching will get the most+impression that it can’t be a foul if he defender gets the ball.

    Three tough OS calls for the AR—not from a Laws perspective, but a a perception perspective. The first is the classic scrum off so many players to watch (made worse by the colors of the teams), the second (the easiest of the three for an AR) complicated by tracking two players at the same time with a close call on one), and the third an apparent touch that the AR had no chance to ascertain and would have put the player on (so with doubt, no flag).
     
  15. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The first offside call probably isn’t made any easier by both teams having so much green in their jerseys. Seems like this would be something for the league to ask them to correct.
     
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Context for those who are unaware or wondering...

    "Carlos" is Carlos Vela, the goalscorer who Stott is managing while the VAR check is occurring.

    "Nathan" is the Video Operator--an in-stadium, non-referee staffer who Stott communicates with directly. He knows the name of every VO on his matches and always calls them by name. If 5% of referees globally in VAR competitions know the names of their VOs (or remember them by kickoff), I'd be shocked.

    "Felicia" is Felicia Mariscal, the AVAR. Stott always confirms offside decisions with his AVAR, the offside specialist, even though there's no requirement he do so.

    I've been a Stott fan since the dawn of MLS. But listening to him work with VAR is simply astounding. The man never puts a word wrong throughout the entire process. We import guys like Howard Webb to make our officiating better. If Stott wanted to, upon his retirement, he could go anywhere in the world and teach people how to make VAR better (remember, he's a teacher by trade!). Not that I think Mike Riley would have him, but Stott could clean up EPL VAR in one season.
     
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  17. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Just give me a still shot Nathan. One screen only young man."

    That's fantastic.
     
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  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It truly is. One of the best parts is that (as this audio is obviously clipped), he's saying this as he runs to the RRA for the OFR. In other words, once Stott gets the recommendation from Rivero and Stott makes the signal, he instantly starts communicating with Nathan to make clear what he wants to see and how he wants to see it when he gets to the monitor. He doesn't waste any time in transit, which, well, almost every other referee in the world probably does. He then talks it over with Rivero and confirms with Mariscal. The whole thing--from review initiation to signal for goal--takes a total of 30 seconds.

    As I said a week or two ago, he is ruthlessly efficient at the VAR processes.
     
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  19. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’ve had more than one refereeing colleague tell me that Stott is also a fantastic clinician. As you said, his “day job” was being a teacher, so he has that knack. No surprise whatsoever that effective and efficient communication would be a significant tool in his toolbox.
     
  20. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    It also struck me as communicating his confidence in the VAR team—I trust you, just give me the one shot for protocol, and let’s get going.
     
  21. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess you can look at it both ways.

    There's trust to be given the best shot once asked for, but it's also an indication that some VARs (and VOs) give referees too much information when they are at the monitor. Like, a split screen (kickpoint and position) when it's unnecessary. Or they start the video much too far back, when looking at the APP isn't necessary. Here, Stott knows what the question is and he knows what is possible, so he just wants to see the offside, starting at the kickpoint, and played through in one loop. He also knows which camera angle is likely going to show him that best.

    So he's trusting the VO to do what he asks, but he's also directing him to do what is necessary, because he doesn't (nor should any referee) trust him to always be efficient on his own. I think that's what is most amazing with Stott, aside from his interpsonal skills and communication. He has the ability to fully understand what the question is and what needs to be looked at--both from the on-field perspective and if he was in the booth, looking at a bunch of monitors. He can seemlessly switch between the two. He's the only referee I've seen/heard who is managing the field AND the VOR at the same time. It truly is the gold standard that I don't even think IFAB or FIFA recognizes or expects at this point.
     
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  22. nylaw5

    nylaw5 Member

    Jan 24, 2002
    West Coast
    When he retires and they name the MLS Referee of the Year award after him (they have to right?) - it won't come close to measuring the impact he has had on the past, present, and future officials working professional games in the US.
     

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