2021 Breakout Youngster

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Patrick167, Dec 11, 2020.

  1. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That is why you wear softer rubber studs on hardpack fields. Here is Cali you hardly see aluminum studs on everyday fields
     
  2. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Aaronson is making a push as well
     
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  3. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    United States
    May 31, 2019
    Texas is a whole different monster. The fields can be so hard that rubber cleats feel like slicks and the grass can be so hard and jagged that slide tackles may as well be done on a cheese grater.

    I live in SoCal...here its a little easier to come by softer ground and playable fields. Sometimes it was hard to play soccer on the fields in Texas...you could forget playing the ball on the ground.
     
  4. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    IMO, the reality is that they really need to back off before signs of stress show themselves. By that time it is at least a little (if not a lot) too late. It's kind of like putting on the coat before you get cold.

    As long as a kid is still growing, they need a great deal of rest. Many kids continue growing and developing well into their 20's.
     
  5. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Unlikely to catch the leaders, but Taylor Booth is now in the competition.
    Two weeks in a row with an assist. This one is a nice set piece delivery.
    RSL academy product signed to Bayern Munich. On loan at St. Polten in Austria.
     
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  6. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    It's a crowded field this year. Hoppe, Richards, Musah, and Weah all have decent possibilities.
     
  7. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I personally think Weah had already broken out prior to this year (Celtic). Musah shot to our attention, but has now become a bench player at Valencia. We haven't had a reason to talk about him in a while.

    For me the top of the chart is Richards and Hoppe.
    Hoppe is now going thru the inevitable rougher patch after finding it so easy in his first months as a starter.

    I get the feeling that if Richards maintains his starting spot at Hoffenheim, and continues his solid play...................that he'll run away with this. That this summer will be a gossip fest as a bunch of clubs in big leagues seek his services. Bayern will have to make a decision............................

    Good news for FCD as they control a huge portion of his next transfer fee. :)
     
  8. dams

    dams Member

    United States
    Dec 22, 2018
    I think it's a race between Richards, Weah, and Aaronson. Hoppe isn't out of the question though.
     
  9. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    A player who might have been much higher profile this year if not for the cancellation of the U20 cycle
    It'll be interesting to see if he's promoted to the first team or loaned out in the fall.
     
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  10. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Does it feel like the next generation (the one behind Pulisic, Reyna, Weah, etc.) is not quite up to par? Or has our young players just been in a slump lately?
     
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  11. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    How long is a generation?

    Because Reyna is pretty much in that generation. Reyna's a 2002. Pulisic's a 1998. They are four years apart.

    I think it's a bit early to be judging the 2006 class.

    That said ... it's worth noting how many of the best of our young players are athletes. McKennie, Richards, Adams, Pulisic, and I'd argue Reyna are all plus athletes.
     
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  12. Anderson11

    Anderson11 Member

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also, our guys are playing regularly in top five leagues now. We don't have infinite time to try and pick out the most promising youth players anymore.
     
  13. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is a generation a year, 4-year cycle, or 10-year player career.
     
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  14. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I'd say Olympic Generations aren't a bad break -- 20-23 year olds every four years.

    So 1997-2000. Pulisic. McKennie. Adams. Dest. Weah. Sargent. Soto. McKenzie. Aaronson. Richards.

    And 2001-2004. Reyna. Araujo. Llanez, Tessman. Otasowie. Hoppe. Reynolds. Kayo. Busio. Scally. Nyeman. Pepi. Gomez. Clark. Cowell. and so on.

    It might not have the top prospects. Or they just might need time.
     
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  15. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i think a lot of us are prematurely looking at this as our new norm, while pulisic/mckennie/adams/dest (add reyna/weah/richards if you want- i dont have a strong definition of "generation") are a REMARKABLE crop of players.

    and i dont mean to be too dismissive, but we lump a lot of guys in that arent indicative of a huge rise in level from the donovan/dempsey/gooch era.

    we look at our top players and try to sneak everyone else in on their coattails. ledezma, aaronson, mckenzie- a lot of guys have been/are being really "overrated". even guys in top 5 leagues that are a lot more marginal than we tend to think they are.

    im not trying to diminish those players, and i mean overrated literally- not that they arent quality players. but god knows robinson gets almost no respect around here, while sargent is supposedly on that top line level. sure, de la is at barcelona, but what is more likely- him playing 10 sr matches for them or being moving on next summer? and thats not remotely trashing him; not making the cut at barcelona generally means everton or lazio level starter. but none of that has happened yet (either way, maybe he really is going to be a barca-level player. maybe hes ben lederman.)

    assuming future success, that every player is not only going make it where they are but keeping improving exponentially is out of control around here...

    take one of the guys i mentioned- aaronson pretty quickly outgrew mls and made a good move to rb s. hes doing really well. but already hes arguably a better option than reyna? how, exactly?

    well, its just assumed he will be at leipzig in two years tops, from there to bayern, cl trophies as far as the eye can see. that guaranteed trajectory is argued as fact on bs every single day

    meanwhile, bs is just as hellbent on the flipside of assuming success- taking actual success for granted. reyna slumping/being worn to a nub/however you see it has completely overshadowed the suspicious correlation to dortmund going from top 3 team with him playing central and heavily influencing that success to floundering around the bottom of the europa spots with him struggling out on the wing. or pulisic being a "questionable start" for the national team after showing he can be among the best players on cl contenders and almost single-handedly carrying chelsea to the champions league as one of the best players in the epl. why do we always default to the negative being the "truth"?

    we have memories like goldfish, questioning if mckennie will ever play a minute in italy and insisting 7 year epl vet yedlin cant possibly compare to bottom of the portugese table reggie cannon. all while anointing every player who makes a move to a dutch reserve side or belgium, cause surely they will be at athletico or levercusen before they have to consider resigning their original contract.

    in conclusion, what im saying is i think we are still making really good progress if you ignore the aberration- the actual huge leap pulisic and co made.

    cause if the question is are cannon/dike/mckenzie/siebatchu a step down from that then the answer is hell yes it is. how is that even arguable?

    but if the question is are those guys in austria or the colaship a step up from the gooch/saief/kljestan/gall/johannson "generation" before it then its an equally emphatic yes.
     
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  16. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I think you'd feel differently if there were U17 and U20 cycles going on.
    The first time many of us take note of the Pulisic, Reyna, Sargent, etc. type of players is at the U17 World Cup. Unless you're watching academy soccer, you're not seeing those players at all. Only a couple made appearances in MLS last year. Who's watching U17 Euro players like Evan Rotundo of Schalke? I don't know.

    Without those cycles, we don't have much to go on.

    I do want to remind folks that our "best" U20 World Cup group is damn strong.
    I'm pulling this out of my ass, so I'm sure I'm making mistakes. CB looks like a weak spot in this U20 team, but its early. CBs break thru a few years later. The midfield depth in this U20 cycle is nutso. I'm not including a bunch of kids in this list. Hell, Aidan Morris just started an MLS Cup final. Where is he in just the U20 midfield depth chart? Yikes.

    ----------------Hoppe-----------------
    Llanez--------Reyna-----De la Fuente
    ---------Johnny---Musah-------------
    Bello---Tomkinson----Carrera-------Reynolds
    -----------------Odunze-------------------

    Other options
    Ochoa (RSL)
    Araujo (LAG)
    Hernandez-Foster (Wolfsburg)
    Busio (SKC)
    Kayo (Wolfsburg)
    Tessman (FCD)
    Booth (Bayern-on loan at St. Polten)
    Otasowie (Wolves)
    Bassett (Colorado)
    Harper (NYRB-just moved from Celtic)
    Clark (NYRB)
    Cowell (San Jose)
    Gomez (Porto)
    Pepi (FCD)

    ....................and on and on and on
     
  17. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Oh, I forgot Justin Che. The FCD centerback now on loan at Bayern.

    I'll just turn over the centerback position in that U20 team to Dallas-Fort Worth. Tomkinson and Carrera are both from Dallas too.
     
  18. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    facts.
     
  19. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Sure, the Pulisic class had a set of positive outcomes that may be hard to replicate. But at this point a few years ago, some of the members that have come through in Pulisic's class were not that well thought of.

    But yes, I do expect less great outcomes from the next group. Just regression to the mean.
     
  20. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    United States
    May 31, 2019
    I think that McKennie and Pulisic may have potentially moved that mean up a bit.
     
  21. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    In general, this next cycle looks about on par as the previous cycle. Of course, having a second top 10 youth talent like Reyna does wonders for outlook.
     
  22. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    Adding 1-3 or so top players like Reyna or Pulisic or McKennie every couple years would be an improvement over the past when we got 1-2 players like that every decade or so, or never depending where you rate guys like Dempsey and Donovan. But I agree with some here that we regularly exaggerate how much we have improved. We produce Pulisic and Gio and then plenty of people automatically assume every class will keep cranking out these types of players. But, we went through the same thing when we had Donovan, Beasley and Gooch in a single class and all the talk was how this was the new normal and we could count on having classes like this all the time. It didn't happen then and while I see real progress now, I think it is likely to be slower than the avalanche of superstars some seem to be anticipating.
     
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  23. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    #198 gogorath, Mar 8, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
    I think the absolute superstars are always outliers to some extent, and therefore subject to normal variation.

    But the volume of quality players should be increasing with professionalization, and we're seeing the signs. European scouts are seeing the signs. That should, just by odds, yield a few more stars in addition to a much more solid and accomplished base.

    I'd argue it's already different than when Donovan, Beasley and Gooch came up in one class -- because Reyna is clearly not in the same time period as Pulisic and McKennie and Adams. He is the other 1-3 top player every few years.

    But yes, it's entirely possible that Reyna is the only star level player out of his grouping. But then again, at 17/18, several of the people we put as stars now were not stars then.

    1998 McKennie, Pulisic
    1999 Adams
    2000 Dest (Richards, Sargent, etc)
    2001 (Araujo, Konrad, etc.)
    2002 Reyna (Busio, Bello, etc.)

    We'll see if anyone elevates their game. But it's not nearly as bunched as people say.
     
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  24. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    That is a good point. I would guess that there will be an evolution as we progress as a soccer nation. I believe that we at the point where our improved level, across the board (skill), has made it possible for those that have good/high skill AND top level athleticism (in addition to other intangible qualities) to stand out. As we continue to progress, our "skill outliers" will progress to the point where they are not only "US skill outliers" but "Global skill outliers". (hopefully that makes sense).

    We have always had some players that were above the norm skillwise (but lacking athletically to some degree or another) that were adequate for MLS but not top leagues. As our overall level increases, those players will be adequate for increasingly higher levels in Europe and, eventually, if we get an extraordinary talent (skill) with only ordinary athletic ability that person may, be good enough for one of the top teams. Either way, anyone without at least above average athletic ability will always be at a significant disadvantage.
     
  25. RossD

    RossD Member

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    I think what's different now is the amount of talent MLS academies are churning out. Way back in the day we only had US Soccer in Bradenton or the occasional kid who could go to Europe as a teen. We now have hundrends of 16-18 year olds in professional training environments where as before we had maybe 20-30.
     
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