2021 Breakout Youngster

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Patrick167, Dec 11, 2020.

  1. Rahbiefowlah

    Rahbiefowlah Member+

    Oct 22, 2001
    Las Vegas
    Clint Dempsey on the Revs was a mean, mean player.
     
  2. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
  3. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #228 Clint Eastwood, Mar 14, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2021
    Just a thought, .Reynolds is the FIFTH player eligible for the US U20s to play in a top 5 Euro league this season.
    Not the U23s, the U20s!!! [Of course the U20 cycle was cancelled, so we'll never see that team.]

    Gio Reyna, Dortmund
    Matthew Hoppe, Schalke
    Bryan Reynolds, Roma
    Yunus Musah, Valencia
    Owen Otasowie, Wolves

    De la Fuente of Barcelona has played in cup competitions, but I believe he hasn't played a La Liga match yet.

    Who's next? We shall see. There are a bunch of youngsters in Germany that might get a look towards the end of the season. Joe Scally at Gladbach, for instance.
     
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  4. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Meanwhile, with his fifth start, Richards is starting to run away with this award.
     
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  5. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    ..........................running away is a bit strong, but he's certainly in a strong position.

    For me its down to Richards and Hoppe.

    Hoppe has played 16 games this year for Schalke across all competitions (with 5 goals).
     
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  6. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Yeah, I'm projecting a bit. I just think that what Richards is showing has more potential this year.
     
  7. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I think Richards playing well at Hoffenheim could get him into important USMNT games this Summer and Fall. That will be hard for Hoppe to overcome, playing in the 2.Bund.

    Hoppe is going to get the most dismissed award. While he is on a historically bad team, getting 20 games in the Bundesliga at 19 is nothing to sneeze at. Very few players at that age, get that many games; especially with so many starts.

    I think we will learn over time that strikers take longer to cook. Hoppe is in the oven, but it will probably take quite a few years. Haaland is an incredible outlier. I heard someone today on a podcast literally say, "if Dike continues to score at Barnsley, and gets a move to a top 4 team in the EPL, and continues to score bunches of goals there, he will have to start for the USMNT". Well, DUH! That is just a humongous IF. The jump for strikers from second division to top division is just so much bigger, it seems, than for other positions.

    Musah is now eligible for this award.
     
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  8. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Entering the picture is Darryl Dike. I think he might head back to Orlando, which will hurt him. Or he could stay at Barnsley and not get promoted. He could stop scoring. But he is on the scene and doing very well.

    We have had strikers have great seasons at his current level. They have never gone on and had sustained success in a first division. So, scoring in the EFLC is not much different than Wood scoring in the 2.Bund or Jozy at AZ. But those guys were great for the NT when healthy. However, projecting second division scoring ability to the first division is not easy and many great Championship strikers do nothing in the EPL.

    But there is a possibility of many goals at Barnsley and a move to somewhere interesting. Strangely, a $10MM move to Liverpool, for example, would be less interesting than it seems. That is lottery ticket transfer for them and he would most likely be viewed as a commodity to loan and sell on later. Much more interesting would be a bigger move, of course, or a $10-$15MM transfer to somewhere like Aston Villa or West Ham or Southhampton. Teams in a top flight that would view that kind of transfer as a serious investment.

    But 10 EFLC goals in half a season and a move for $15 MM to West Ham, and then score at Sargent level production at least in the EPL, he can win the award. Not least as he will probably be playing a large role with the USMNT in WCQ'ing in that scenario.

    I still think Orlando screws this up KC style...but there is a possibility and his name is on the card for me.
     
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  9. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i agree with you. He needs to take baby steps. He is still young with a great attitude. Moving to a middle-of-the-road team in a top league maybe his best next step. Because he needs work with his back-to-goal game, I would like to see him go to an Italian team to round off his game.
     
  10. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    We have seen with Sargent, Wood, and Jozy, where you don't want to go is to bad teams in the top leagues. It is not always easy to predict the next season though.
     
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  11. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I think Dike would be well served avoiding England for the moment anyway.
    I'd love to see him go the Aaronson and McKenzie path. Go to a good club in a second tier Euro league.
    Really work on his game and develop without the enormous pressure that comes at a big club.
    Heck, Red Bull Salzburg would be great. Anderlecht need help. Celtic need help. The list of clubs like that is long.

    I like the Premier League for an already established player like Pulisic, who'd achieved success in the Bundesliga already.
    He's awesome, and is having difficulty getting consistent playing time in England.

    For instance, I don't like Bryan Reynolds move that much. Other than the money it provided to FCD.
     
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  12. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    I agree that would be the best path for Dike but the problem is that will much more difficult to follow with a lofty price tag. Only the top clubs are going to pay top dollar. I suppose a team like RB Salzburg, a top team in a lower league with deep pockets might be interested.
     
  13. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    We'll see what the price tag is.
    I'll believe 15-20 million when I see it. :)

    I think people sometimes see Cincinnati (the worst team in MLS last year) spend 15 million on a forward, and believe Euro clubs spend that kind of money. These boards dramatically under-rate MLS' place in the marketplace right now.

    The 15 million that Cincinnati spent on Brenner is more than Anderlecht's record signing. And they've only bought one player (Stanciu) that even approaches that pricetag.

    If the price is 8-10 million with incentives (future transfer percentage, etc.) then a wide range of clubs can be in the picture.
     
  14. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Brugge was hot for him and probably are still interested.

    Generally, I agree about England. But there are some clubs there that would be good. Southhampton has a good track record developing players for instance. I do think his game is best suited to England at the moment.
     
  15. slider4CU

    slider4CU Member

    Borussia Dortmund
    United States
    Apr 12, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the EPL might eat Dike alive at this point. I think another year in The Championship or other comparable league would do him well
     
  16. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    #241 IndividualEleven, Mar 20, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2021
    W/re to Dike, if a player is performing in a highly exemplary manner then he moves up to the next level. A young player killing it in the B2 or C'ship, is highly unlikely to move to Belgium or Austria. That's wouldn't be a logical move.

    The average salaries in the Austrian B1 are about $250k per annum. That's some ways below those of MLS. The disparity is further widened by MLS's use of various mechanisms to skew wages toward the starting XI players on the rosters. Brendan Aaronson has 2 goals and 2 assists in 540 minutes. He's lighting it up like he never had in MLS. And that's without being the offensive fulcrum in the manner he had with the Union. Taylor Booth is on 1 goal and 2 assist in just 300 minutes. He came out of the Liga 3. EPB is starting to kill it, and he was no Mark McKenzie when in MLS. Austria is a nice landing pad for teenage American attackers or U23 defenders who need to significantly develop their games, physicality, or mentality. Dike in Austria would be like peak Shaq in the NBA, but more dominant.

    B2 Salaries are more in line with those of MLS than of the C'ship. So the B2 is not so comparable to the C'ship.
    Even so, let's consider some of the other players mentioned in this thread--
    Bobby Wood: he did well in the B2, but he also had chronically bad knees.
    Altidore: he did well in the Eredivisie, but so did Juan Agudelo( 3g/3a in 900min) and Michael Bradley(15g/6a in 07/08). The Eredivisie is a free-scoring league. And the salaries are similar to those of MLS.
    Hoppe is on an historically bad team. He still has more Top-5 goals than Altidore had. It's tough to get a handle on how good Hoppe is, given his situation.

    If Dike puts together a monster season with Barnsley then the next logical move would be to the Top-5. Like Sargent, he has a strong enough base in terms of mentality, athleticism, and physicality to develop there.

    Hannover 96 2021 Wages | Player & Team totals (salarysport.com)
    Average Salaries in Top Flight Football (sports-king.com)
     
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  17. Calling BS

    Calling BS Member+

    Orlando City
    United States
    Jan 25, 2020
    Please explain how returning to OC would hurt him. Do you think playing Kickball at Barnsley is actually helping him grow in any significant way?

    What does screwing up KC style mean? Are you actually referring to how KC handled EPB? If so, please explain how Dike starting and playing CF for us is like KC keeping EPB on the bench.
     
  18. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The only way he is going back to OC is in a wheelchair. I think someone will buy him.
     
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  19. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Players made to stay usually don't play as well. Look at Long after his move to the EPL was denied, he had been awful. Unhappy players don't perform.

    KC thought if the first offer was $1MM they must be willing to do 2, right? They weren't. KC had sat EPB on the bench, then he walked for free. They could have had a $million for a bench player, got greedy. Meanwhile, EPB lost an important year of development, maybe more.

    I do agree Barnsley is not a development spot. But he does seem happy there.

    If Dike wants to come back, that would make a difference.
     
  20. Calling BS

    Calling BS Member+

    Orlando City
    United States
    Jan 25, 2020
    LOng is a sample size of one. I could easily pick a sample size of one (Larin, who forced his way out and then failed) and say “see going to Europe too early doesn’t work. I won’t because it’s dishonest misinformation.

    Dike is nothing like EPB and to try to equate it is a straw-man. Dike plays and has been growing his game at OC. The way OC play (style wise) would be helpful for him. Look no further than the vast improvements of young players like Mueller and Michel. To peg OC as wasteland for development is ignoring what’s actually been happening at the club. To me Dike is better off at OC than Barnsley. If there is another club at a higher level, plays a stylish brand of soccer, and will play him, then that’s another can of worms. No such situation has been pointed out publicly yet.
     
  21. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    its interesting that olympic qualifying is happening right now and its not (and wont) move the needle on this thread at all.
     
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  22. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Another example....................Fabian Castillo of FCD. Forced his way out to a situation much worse than he was in to begin with.

    But anyway.

    Daryl Dike is VERY LIKELY returning to Orlando. The transfer window is closed. D'uh.
    So unless Barnsley can scrape up the money to meet the reported transfer clause (which I really doubt), he will be returning to Orlando.
    Who knows how long that will be for, though? Somebody may come in with a bid in that summer transfer window that's too good to refuse.

    I don't see any similarity here between this and the EPB situation.
    The reported transfer offers that SKC received for EPB were nothing even in the same ballpark of what we're hearing Orlando has already received for Dike. We're talking 1 million. Not offers "too good to be refused." Well below what we considered market value for him at the time. Look at what clubs were just willing to pay for Reynolds, Scally, Aaronson, McKenzie, etc. MLS shouldn't have to bend over and accept any 'ole lowball offer that comes along. SKC also provided a transfer clause as part of his Porto loan deal. Porto decided not to trigger that and so EPB came back to a bad situation. Bad for him because SKC had one of the best CB tandems in league history at the time (in my opinion). In their primes Matt Besler and Ike Opara.
     
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  23. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I think England is the best place for Dike if he transfers. It is probably the league where players have the most success with physicality and is more likely to play to his strengths. Then again, I think I have the opposite attitude toward where players should go than most on here. Everyone always seems to want our guys to go to places that focus on what they lack. But, for me, that's a recipe for failure. Players should go where they will be valued and where their strengths will be maximized. Gong somewhere that emphasizes everything you are poor at is just a recipe for ending up on the bench or outside the team entirely. Go somewhere you can play to your strengths, not someplace that will force you to play your weakest.
     
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  24. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    .
    I don't think many can argue with you. They had a USMNT starter at one spot and a guy who was shortly going to win MLS defender of the year twice.
     
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  25. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Long is an example of thousands across world soccer. Come on, are you saying you haven't seen players get denied a move, then play badly because they are upset or depressed? The fans of any team can name a few, just from their team!

    I'm not ready to put Orlando with teams that have actually improved young players. Maybe if they do it a few more seasons. I will say that I have hope for them. That I wouldn't conversely, put them with Atlanta and LAG, who sign great 17 year olds, who look like the exact same, or worse, at 20 then at 17.

    If Dike can get a move to Southhampton, and OC step in and say no, that is a loss for the USMNT.
     
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