2021-22 Roster Movement Thread

Discussion in 'Sporting Kansas City' started by vividox, Nov 29, 2021.

  1. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Houston just cut him loose. SKC could pick him up for the rest of the season for practically nothing. MLSPA has his salary at $161,000, so $50k would do it for the rest of the season.
    OTOH, I'm not sure he has $50k of worth to Vermes.
     
  2. lukeD

    lukeD Member+

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Finally, some pressure from fans. Need a lot more of this.
    upload_2022-8-14_20-43-26.png
     
  3. kcscsupporter

    kcscsupporter Member+

    Apr 17, 2002
    D17
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    jake reid doesn't care about the actual team; he only cares about the bottom line. so as long as people keep paying money to watch this team and buying overpriced food and merch, he's not going anywhere. he's ruining the perception of the organization, but he's not going anywhere. the FO being soft isn't the biggest problem. The fanbase is soft too... and that's worse.
     
  4. lukeD

    lukeD Member+

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed, that is why I have attended only one SKC game this year. Time to move on from the one man dictatorship. That won't happen until people stop going to games.
     
  5. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Thinking about 2023, I always, in the past, have gotten a wee bit nervous about expansion drafts. There is one this winter. I am not worried.
    Here's how I see our protected roster breakdown, tell me if I'm wrong:
    To protect (11): W. Agada, N. Isimat-Mirin, G. Kinda, E. Thommy, M. Tzionis, R. Voloder, L. Ndenbe, A. Pulido, J. Pulskamp, J. Russell, R Walter
    No need, homegrown, u-25 (6): O. Cisneros, J. Davis, C. Duke, F. Hernández, K. Pierre, K. Rad
    Likely left exposed (10): K. McIntosh, T. Melia, O. Rosell, D. Sallói, K. Shelton, B. Sweat, R. Espinoza, A. Fontàs, K. Ford, G. Zusi


    Now, the protected class can have 12 players in it, so I assume there's one more. Who? OTOH, we may not want to protect Isi, but I do think we pick up his option. Do we need to protect him?
    Also, I'm assuming Salloi is gone. If he re-signs, then he's an easy 12th protected player. I don't think it sounds as if he's re-signing.
    Overall point: It really sucks that I can't come up with more than 12 players we have to protect, or even 12 we probably should. i suppose we could protect Ford. I didn't hate this play, but, you know, seriously, protect him from what? I assume he won't have the time or the grace of PV when he returns to get back into the lineup, meaning St L could grab him, but they'd be grabbing a question mark with drug suspension. They only get 5 MLS players in this draft, right? There is no way one is from SKC. Unless we Salloi is still unsigned and unprotected
     
  6. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There'd be zero reason for St. Louis to select Salloi, he's a free agent, they'd get a matter of days to have exclusive negotiating rights within the league for him before he'd be free to sign anywhere within the league.
     
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  7. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Also, do we have to protect U-22s?
     
  8. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would assume they would have to be protected/exposed, yes, but there's nothing in last year's rules about it specifically.
     
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  9. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I mean, if we didn't, I could not come up with 12 players worth protecting.
     
  10. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    We might be in a position to need to protect Salloi and/or Ford, but otherwise I don't really know. We've lost players on years we've been shit before.

    I was resigned just a few months ago to losing Salloi this offseason, but it's getting less and less palatable to me. I think this club needs to keep him, if possible. If he leaves, he better leave MLS. If we lose him to a small contract (free agents can't go above league max, right?) when we could keep him with TAM, and then watch his output increase by 30% immediately at whatever dumbass team he lands on... Just not sure that will sit well with me for a long time.
     
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  11. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I have to think that unless he catches fire, this season will limit his chances in Europe. I mean, he is a guy who can score 16, but he is also a guy who can fall off the map, and doing again after a career year doesn't up his price, certainly not over here.Of course, if just wants to go home, he will have that choice. But if he's thinking big 5 league clubs? Not sure anyone is biting. and if that's the case, as you said, he's worth more to us than most, and we can afford to go higher.
     
  12. lukeD

    lukeD Member+

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Salloi was called into Hungary first team for nations league. Four matches. Was an unused sub in three and sent home for fourth. That's what Europe thinks of him.

    He's so inconsistent it's difficult to know what he is or predict the player he will become. 5 goals and 1 assist is his current stat line for MLS. That's poor for an every game starter. Last year he was an MVP contender, and the spackle that covered up the massive holes in the SKC roster. Is he an MVP candidate or a below average left winger? Who knows.

    For 2023, SKC have MUCH bigger issues that retaining Salloi. Like finding 2 starting CBs, 2 starting wing backs, 1 starting DM and 1 starting keeper.
     
  13. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We all know KC isn't replacing the entire back 6, that's just not going to happen.
     
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  14. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    For what it's worth, Daniel is 5g3a on the year, which is definitely low. On the other hand, our talismanic superstar JFR is on 7g0a. Now great players will score despite lineup issues, but I will say I will consider our number 9 problems as a major component for these two putting up unimpressive numbers this year.

    On the other hand, he's still put up better numbers than Brian Rodriguez, Grandsir, Cabral, Caicedo, Costa, etc.

    Even numbers to Etienne Jr., Fragapane, Finlay, Lassiter, Andrade, Bedoya, Asprilla, Savarino, Morris, Almada, Araujo, Velasco, Pereira, Facundo Torres...

    Just comparing him to other league wingers similar minutes, and he's having a fairly average season. There are certainly players outperforming him! But not really that many.

    If this player watches the attack absolutely implode around him and goes from MVP-quality to just average, I'm not fussed at all. That's still a player worth hanging onto.

    And I'm somewhere in the middle on the back line. I would not be upset to shed Fontas and keep Isi, Ndenbe, and Pierre as primary guys, then see about some cutthroat decisions regarding who among Voloder, Ford, and Rad we maintain (I'm less down on Voloder than it seems many, who have completely written him off?). I also disdain Sweat less than many, though I'll admit he's definitely picked up the Luis Martins role of actually-solid-LB-until-he-isn't. I'm not sure Ndenbe is the long-term solution either, but I also am so excited to get him back and healthy and see if our defensive tightens up a bit.

    The big questions are, to me, if I'm being realistic:
    1. Which of Isi and Fontas return? Both? Neither? If returning, can we restructure their deals in a way they find palatable and the team can make use of? I don't think either sucks but neither is showing the dominance and organization I'd like to see as someone to build around for the next several years.
    2. D-mid. Always and forever. I was going to write "who will replace Roger?" but the answer is Walter. Provided we put a real 6 behind him. If we do not get this significant midfielder? See below.
    3. Who will replace Roger? The guy brings a very deceptively excellent range of passing and stability to the midfield. Everyone's always focused on his running around and tackling people, but the more Roger touches the ball, the better the team looks. I'm not sure any of Thommy, Kinda, or Walter quite have the tool set he brings, and I don't know which of those to drop from the expected starting XI. The answer is to drop the 4-3-3 and lean into a somewhat more defensively-capable lineup, but who does that?
    4. Goalkeeper. Pulskamp has chops! And backstopping a defensively frail team can be a great way for a keeper to go from passable prospect to fire-forged pro. But I'm still not sold. I want to lean on our youth, but this is soccer and sometimes the likeable young talent just isn't enough for now. If he can get better at decision-making and challenging crosses in the box, I might change my tune...
    Oh look, another long and rambly post. If we do not retain Salloi, I still argue it's a great time to lean away from the winger life and into a bigger midfield. Like so:

    Pulido
    Kinda - Thommy - Russell
    Walter - New Friend
    Ndenbe - New Friend - Isi - Pierre
    Pulskamp


    Italics on those I'm not sold on as starters and think, if finances are right, we can improve on, or need to fight for their position. Yeah, I'll still start Pulido ahead of Agada unless the rest of this season is just unbelievable. I think whoever starts behind Alan is still getting plenty of minutes though!
     
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  15. lukeD

    lukeD Member+

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed, which gives me pause about 2023 because that is what needs to happen.

    If you juggle Walter back to the 6, keep Melia even though he's past his prime, and start Ndenbe, then you only have to replaced the RB and two starting CBs. That, SKC can do.
     
  16. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    #666 mschofield, Aug 15, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2022
    I don't think we throw it all in, but I do think we can come up with a CB in the draft, because that's a great position to pick up in the draft. I think we will go all in on a TAM dmid. I think in MLS we've seen that starting goalkeeper is usually a $500,000 signing. I think you're probably right, we bring Zusi back, but as a spot starter with pierre now the full time starter.I think Logan makes the left side his, and i think we exercise the option on Isi, and find him a partner who can run a bit.

    Edit to add: If we bring back Zusi and Isi, that's only $3m in available salary, though a draft CB wouldn't cost much, keeper and star level dmid would take up half the 3
     
  17. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I think you nailed the lineup though PV will push either thommy or Kinda to the left wing, JFR to the right, and makie is something crazy, like a 4-3-3.
    I wonder about Pulskamp. Getting beat near post so many times says maybe he can't actually start. I think he is brilliant at times, but we all know that keepers are not judged on what they do well as much as where they screw up, and consistency is really important.
     
  18. lukeD

    lukeD Member+

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    upload_2022-8-15_15-5-32.png

    I'm not going to dig into every wingers stats, but no one in their right mind is going to look at that wild level of inconsistency and say, "lets spend some real money on Daniel Salloi".

    Maybe he's retained, maybe he's not. I'd rather see the money set aside for a new Salloi contract spend on a CB that knows how to clear a cross. I know that is a low expectation, but since neither starting CB can do that, lets start there when we rebuild this turd of a defense.

    As I said in the previous year's off season thread....No money should be spent on any player that is not a defender.
     
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  19. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Thing is, it really shouldn't take "real money" to retain Salloi, unless he has some definite competition from foreign clubs. Again, my understanding could be off, but to my knowledge the highest wage he could earn as a free agent in MLS is the league maximum, which isn't far ahead of what he makes now. If we just dedicate 100-200k in allocation, of which we always have plenty, we guaranty him a better salary than anywhere else in the league.

    And his numbers aren't staggering. Inconsistency isn't the best look, though it's probably the most common look, particularly in non-imported MLS players. But again, he's a known quantity who can succeed in this system. Yes, I'm aware he was dreadful/snakebit in 2019, and I'm aware he basically never even saw the field in 2020, but that's not as uncommon as you might think. Just seems people view 2019 as his secret true self, and that despite success on either side, he's going to keep regressing to that mean.

    Which is silly.

    The bigger problem is that we do not have a winger to replace him (and considering his career stats likely place him in the top five KC wingers of all times, certainly not replace him with someone as good, let alone better). If we ship him off, we ship someone in. That is the opposite of not spending money other than the defense! Course, if the kid wants a DP deal it's no wonder he's not gotten a contract yet, but I'm of the opinion he's not going to be an idiot about it, even if he's putting up numbers that would suggest he should be closer to Russell in pay than he is.

    And I'll still argue again and again that defenders are not our problem. The problem is the team shape and the lack of a true defensive midfielder of quality. Drop the 4-3-3 in favor of something more practical and sustainable, then spend the big money on a badass 6, and I bet you Fontas and Isi look ten times better. Albeit there surely is no way both of them are back together next year...
     
  20. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not sold on Salloi either, he's very hit/miss, but one thing I found researching trades within the league lately is that the price for wingers as a whole around the league has just gone up.

    As for that money for Salloi set aside for another CB, I think you get the CB money by NOT bringing back 1 (or both) of the current CBs making combined $2m.
     
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  21. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The question for next year will be the midfield to start. With Kinda coming back we arguably have 3 "starter" quality already with Walter, Thommy, and Kinda (assuming he's back to full health). Do we say bye to Salloi and move one of Thommy/Kinda to the wing to accommodate the 6 we all want? If not, can Walter play the 6 if we improve 1 or both of the CBs? I think he's done well there, but he's done best when he has a "ball winner" like Espinoza in front of him and I'm not sure that's Thommy or Kinda.
     
  22. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    The transfer rules are quite stupid, and along with the allocation order the thing I'm most excited to go.

    With that said, is Kinda necessarily a DP all next season too? Is that transfer cost amortized through his entire contract, only disappearing from our salary structure when he signs a new deal? Could the team offer him a new deal now of a slight increase that also puts him in TAM range instead of DP?
     
  23. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Agreed. That midfield three is a non-starter.

    Vermes has historically been uninterested in playing Kinda on the wing, instead putting him in as a false 9 and shuttling the CF out wide, if memory serves? While I think he as a valid playmaker but moreso an aggressive dribbler would make him a solid winger candidate, I just seem to recall him never getting wing minutes even when it was really on the table.

    I don't think Thommy is a winger either, and I very don't think Tzionis is ready to be the starter out there. Like I mentioned above, a 4-2-3-1 that relaxes into a 4-4-2 to preserve Russell seems sharper. Basically move a winger back into a central midfield position and still try to give Russell his wide attacking capabilities. I know formations are often largely semantics anyways, but I'd think that would stiffen our spine a bit while letting us move forward with what would likely be a gap on the left otherwise, should Daniel leave.
     
  24. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you do, you have to get another DP that is TAMable (or make moves to get rid of 2 of the U22 players). Because to have 3 U22 players you either need an open DP slot, or 1 needs to be TAMable.
     
  25. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Look at Walter's positioning when he plays the 6. Too often, he's too advanced, at least too advanced to cover for a CB with close to zero speed.
    I don't believe that as a ball-winning 8, at recent points in his career, Espinoza is better than Walter. They're kind of similar, and both good at that role. But their instincts push them forward, get them fully involved in the attacking end and not reading the field and anticipating what's about to go wrong in the other direction. Not really a problem in an 8. It is in PV 6. A PV 6 has to account for the fact that out outside backs will for some f'ing reason often both be around the top of the opponent's box. We tried to address this, briefly, by holding Zusi deeper back, but, you know, I love Zusi as a RB but not because he's a lock down defender.
    Our 6 makes occassional bursting runs into the attack. plays aournd the half-line to center circle. He looks at the other 21 players on the field, in front of him, and figures out what has to happen next.
    Walter plays around the top of their box circle (what is that called), which leaves Fontas in foot-races far too often (should be never).
    Against the level of attacking talent now in and arriving in MLS, we need an actual 6, a tactical, ball-winning, field general. I don't know, maybe Kinda actually could play that role, a la Busio? OTOH, nothing we can do will improve us as much as bringing in a true 6 in the PV mold.
    I mean, we mocked him at the time, but when Doyle said the most important player for 2022 for us was Mauri, he was right. Not that we should have kept him, but without a player in that role, we were always gonna be toast.
    And Inca is totally correct, get the right person in that role, and our CBs are much better.No MLS side can ask two CBs to handle their defense these days, and one of ours is so slow it's paiful to watch
     

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