Soft 2nd yellow for Jon Moss. He was close to the play, don’t think he’s gonna like that one upon review. Earlier mass confrontation was handled very well though.
I don't think it was soft at all. It's hard to argue Tanganga didn't commit two YC offenses in the mass con (the foul and then the shoving/neck contact). Tanganga just gave him an easy one two minutes later.
I agree, with the added comment that Tanganga’s first yellow could have easily been a red. The second yellow was a clear and easy call.
Well he leaves his feet early and is quite late, so no problem with the yellow. But in the epl it seems less severe than is usually given a caution. I was surprised it was given, especially as a second.
The people that grade the games don’t care about that, they only care if the call is defendable in a vacuum. Which when you watch the replay angle, is a careless foul IMO.
Remember the English philosophy of a 2CT not needing to be that bad to warrant sending off. One of the few places where they are more draconian than the rest of the world. You’ve been warned. You have a very short rope thereafter.
This is the way it is supposed to be. In other places and leagues the players and coaches know that a YC is now a license to play any way you want, so it actually has the opposite effect. Which is of course totally ridiculous. PH
So in other words, the yellow card does have the desired impact of changing a player's behavior!! (Of course, I'm kidding about this. A yellow card is supposed to mean "modify your behavior to something less belligerent if you want to continue playing the game . . .")
You figure the original foul was about 1.3 yellows, the scuffle was another 0.8. And then he immediately commits a foul that was worth another 0.7 yellows. IMO Moss correctly sent him off.
Brutal tackle on Elliot in the Liverpool/Leeds game…leg breaking (most likely) scissor challenge from behind. Ref appeared to miss it in real time, but came back with a RC pretty quickly…don’t know if he got it from the 4O or VAR.
Not that it means anything but commentators said VAR. No monitor check. Pawson didn’t call a foul. They just updated to say it wasn’t VAR.
Good example of how the scissor twist can be a leg breaker even when the twist isn’t a lot- here just a 90 degree rotation broke both of his lower legs… Tib fib can be a career ender.
The foul was right in front of the 4O…that was always most likely. Couldn’t tell with the coverage if he had gone to the monitor or not, but I guess we have the answer.
I … didn’t know this was a thing in England. I’d still object to a foul that would usually be considered careless resulting in a 2YC though, which is what it looks like happened IMO. Tanganga arguably should’ve gotten 2 separate cautions or even a straight RC in the previous incident though, so perhaps justice was done in the big picture. Also, the tackle on Moura immediately prior was clearly a foul IMO, and might’ve been a borderline YC on the continent. (Me with my DVR, watching the game the following day: )
It's been mentioned on here before but there was a damn good reason for the crack down on the tackle from behind in the late 90s. Sure maybe it went a little too far, but we've clearly gone too far back the other way. A PL referee didn't think this was even a careless tackle. How did we get back to this?
The Athletic is saying dislocated ankle with no mention of any fractures to the lower leg bones. At the end of everything, a SFP red card came out. But we have to get this type of challenge out of the game. We saw it with KDB in the Euros, and now we have seen this. If you give me a choice between too many red cards and too many injuries, I'll take too many red cards. It filters down to the lower levels as well. In my son's game yesterday, his goalkeeper was cleaned out by a two-footed knee-high challenge with only a yellow to show for it. My son should have had a caution (and he even admitted he was taking one for the team in the "the ball or the man gets by me, but not both" sense) and was not even given a talking to. We need to get the bar for misconduct to a more reasonable level across the game.
Sadly my prediction about good players getting serious injuries back in post #170 is starting to come true. I hope it won't be too long before the PGMOL and others see the errors of their ways and go back to instructing referees to clamp down on these tackles again. PH
All goes back to referees being told to “manage” games and keeping card counts low. You manage the game by calling the fouls and giving the cards. Quit finding excuses to let misbehaving players stay on the pitch.
We've seen it in the pre-VAR days. Once the ref sees a broken leg or a dislocated ankle, then they go with red. Whether it was VAR, the 4O, or Pawson just seeing the carnage they got to SFP.
It took Pawson the better part of 5 minutes and Klopp chewing out both the 4O first and Pawson second to produce the card for a foul he didn’t even recognize. And once play restarted he had no idea what a foul was. There was a tackle from behind on Mane not too long after that he let go. Not to mention the handling that he didn’t call in the 1H that led to a break when almost every player stopped playing expecting the call and that ended with a foul at the top of the D that included an elbow being thrown at a head.
Now that I’ve seen the Struijk tackle, it looks like Elliott’s leg/ankle does get trapped, though not by a ‘classic’ scissoring action. Also, because I felt like torturing myself, I checked Twitter, where it appears nearly half of people don’t even think it was a foul. I’m also not impressed by the failure to show any replays. I’m pretty sure squickier incidents have been shown on replay in the past. The similar tackle from behind on Mane (replay shown at 72:24 of the game) seems to differ crucially IMO b/c Cooper slid/lunged into the challenge while Struijk jumped into it — significant increase in force and a higher impact point from the trailing leg.