2021-22 England Referee Assignments and Discussion [EPL/EFL/Cups+][R's]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by code1390, Aug 1, 2021.

  1. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    #1676 Pierre Head, Jun 8, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2022
    behind telegraph paywall.
    Also found here:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/s...s-Premier-League-Mike-Riley-fighting-job.html

    What has taken them so long?
    The appointment of Moss to the Championship play-off final was ridiculous, as well as the general decline on overall performances in the EPL every year, we have seen and discuss here weekly.

    PH
     
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  2. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    Talk about clear and obvious...
     
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  3. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well we know fitness or at least apparent fitness is very important for Premier League referees.
     
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  4. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess I just find it odd that we know hired SG1 officials do have multiple chances to take a fitness test. And, to be clear, they should.

    But you want to promote someone and they get one single chance? And then you find out they had a virus and the response isn't "okay, let's try again in a month?"

    Unless there's something else going on we don't know about, like a previously failed test, it makes no logical sense.
     
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  5. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    You would think that someone who gets to the point of being considered for promotion at this level must have passed fitness tests numerous times already.
    He must also have been refereeing regularly throughout the previous season.
    This seems very strange to me.

    PH
     
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  6. Mikael_Referee

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    100%. Smith was heavily favoured throughout the season with assignments so as you say, either there is sth missing (maybe they weren't satisfied with his performance in the interview), or PGMOL is dogmatic in the extreme on such issue (they got into a huge legal tangle before, so I guess it would follow).
     
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  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Webb rumors are still just tabloid fodder for the moment. But if that were to come to fruition (and it does seem plausible for a few reasons), it immediately raises the question of a succession plan for PRO. Does Geiger step into that role or would PRO look elsewhere?
     
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  8. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    I think Brian Hall is available (again).

    PH
     
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  9. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    that’s what I’m thinking. Or a matter of when. MLS runs calendar year. Would Webb leave his post during the middle of MLS before November? Would he leave after MLS commitment and walk in mid season to the Prem?
    All speculation, of course.
     
  10. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    What's amazing is that Riley has been able to last this long in that post. Typically, the heads of refereeing in each country in Europe is only in charge for about 5 years until the most recent great referee from that country retires and takes over.

    Look at Italy the last decade or so. What was it? Rosetti then Rizzoli and now it's Rocchi.

    I think in Spain it was Velasco Carballp and now its Undiano Mallenco and it will probably be Lahoz next.

    Germany has had the same guy be in charge for a while in Fandel (I think).

    Riley has been in that same role now for well over a decade which is really unheard of. How many guys did MLS cycle through before PRO and even after PRO's emergence? It's not a long term role around the world yet Riley has managed to somehow stay in that position in the most high profile league with seemingly an endless strings of errors and controversy by his referees.
     
  11. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Fandel gave up his position in 2018. Apparently there is no longer the head of the referee committee, but you can see the members of the committee in the second link below. Lutz Michael Fröhlich and Florian Meyer are the representatives of the elite referees, and Lutz Wagner is the DFB instructor.

    http://www.dfb.de/news/detail/fandel-beendet-taetigkeit-als-vorsitzender-des-schiedsrichter-ausschusses-188093/

    http://www.dfb.de/verbandsstruktur/kommissionen-ausschuesse/dfb-schiedsrichterausschuss/
     
  12. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    But Riley never was a "great" referee to begin with. He never went to WC Finals.

    And an endless stream of public criticism from some very high profile former referees.
    Amazing isn't it?
    Makes you wonder how it has been allowed to happen for so long when there has been little if any improvement year after year.

    PH
     
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've learned some things seem obvious to me that end up maybe not being obvious (or even true!). But, to my eyes, the answer here is obvious. Webb would move in the very near-term, prior to the EPL season, or he wouldn't move at all.

    Think about it this way: there are rumors that people are unhappy with Riley now and they are angling to make a change. If true and if they have reached out to or plan to reach out to Webb, it means he would have the opportunity to come in at the start of the season, get his affairs in order before things really get going, and be totally at the helm from Day 1.

    Isn't that preferable to coming in midseason, when there is a "crisis?"

    More to the point, though, he can't defer over the summer until after the MLS season ends. It's not Webb's choice. Because if there is not a "crisis" in November or December, Riley might not be in an untenable position. The EPL can't say "Riley has it until the World Cup and then he's out." If Webb actually wants this (and it's truly available) he'd have to act now. I would also add that any financial hit he takes for leaving PRO early could almost certainly be made up by PGMOL, to the extent any questions like that matter. He'd also be able to leave PRO in good hands with Geiger and Barkey, even if that's temporary. So, all in all, it seems like a no-brainer IF it's on the table and IF Webb wants it. But we're relying on British tabloids thus far so those are two big "ifs."
     
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  14. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Also remember that Mrs. Webb (the former Bibi Steinhaus) is the PGMOL women's select group manager.
    Mr. Webb might prefer to live closer to her!
    :D

    PH
     
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  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just came across this:

     
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  16. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Great interview!
    Hope he does go on Strictly Come Dancing, would love to see that.

    PH
     
  17. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Brilliant! :D

    Maybe it was already mentioned in this thread somewhere, but is Dean continuing in a PGMOL role? (I only remember that Atkinson and Moss are.)
     
  18. Mikael_Referee

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    As will Kevin Friend, who announced retirement yesterday and will replace Phil Dowd as manager of the Championship referees (SG2). I liked Friend - he was a very good English (style) referee, and believe he always got more respect from the football public than inside PGMOL, who often underused him IMO.
     
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  19. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So that's four of the mid tier/mid-upper tier SG1 refs gone. I hope they don't burn out the two World Cup referees.
     
  20. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    90-100 matches gone.

    One referee added. Sure things will be fine.
     
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  21. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    :(:speechless:

    PH
     
  22. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I saw speculation earlier that the adds for this past year, who did very few whistles, were added this year to groom them to be ready to whistle games next year as the retirements were anticipated.
     
  23. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm sure, to some extent, that's the case. But last year saw four "rookies" who did 19 total games, with Gillett doing almost half. Presume Gillett becomes a regular--because he's been one before. Fine, that's like 10 of the "missing" games that you have covered.

    Now the other three plus this year's rookie need to pick up about 80 games among them. Obviously that's not going to happen. So the slack needs to be picked up elsewhere.

    Don't get me wrong, the math problem is clearly solvable. But it involves 15-20 games for referees for a bunch of referees who were in the 3-8 game range. That's a lot more exposure for people who are, at this level, largely untested. Add in Oliver and Taylor needing to be carefully managed and I just think you're going to see some interesting stuff this year. And the risk of burnout for guys like Tierney, Kavanagh, Attwell, etc. could be quite high. If any referee--veteran or not--has the type of performance that necessitates them being sidelined, things will get very complicated. Riley has no margin for error.
     
  24. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    And, how soon does FIFA pull the WC teams out of domestic competition? And, then mix in a compressed CL and Europa League schedule, and you are setting the big guys up for injury and just plain being worn out.

    tough year to be a referee!
     
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  25. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are the referees going to get pulled out of their leagues when the players have to play up to eight days before the World Cup starts? I guess that would be an interesting question if someone knows what the schedule will be for pre-World cup seminars and any fitness stuff that needs to happen. Maybe they just cover what Collina wants a handball to be over zoom?
     
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