2021-22 England Referee Assignments and Discussion [EPL/EFL/Cups+][R's]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by code1390, Aug 1, 2021.

  1. Mikael_Referee

    Mikael_Referee Member+

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    Here is the full sequence: https://streamable.com/qrko3m

    I really don't like these penalties where the attacker is later to the defender than the duel, and just sticks his leg out in order to be kicked (Lacazette also clearly fouls Targett in the aerial duel, too).

    Contrarily, I guess this incident is 'too clear not to intervene on' and PGMOL, not the most sophisticated refereeing theoreticians in many (many) regards, will assess Oliver calling Pawson as basically correct.
     
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  2. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @Mikael_Referee Do you have the clip of the APP leading to Brightons PK in the 79' against Man City? I can't find the full passing sequence. Seems like a clear offside offense.
     
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To the annoyance of probably many on the MLS thread, I think Ronaldo should have unequivocally been sent off. Of course, the fact that he wasn’t lends credence, I believe, to a few of the arguments I made last night.
     
  4. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    That was very very close to being DOGSO vs. Maguire

    Regardless of the call, DOGSO, no DOGSO, nothing there for BAR to reverse.
    And yes. Ronaldo should have seen red.
     
  5. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
  6. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Nice communication and work by VAR
     
  7. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "BUT HE GOT THE BALL"

    Lunging check
    Elevated feet check
    Contact on shin check

    Red red red.
     
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  8. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I get we want to keep it 11v11 in the PL, but I really want a potential WC QF+ crew to get that live.
     
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  9. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You know the masses, particularly in England, will question why it was even a foul because “he got the ball” (TM) .

    Pogba’s SFP is far more worthy of a send off than Tim Melia’s play yesterday. Again, I’m calling both as reds, but if I only get one of these to rule as a send off it’s this one.
     
  10. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To be fair I would say almost all of the reactions I've seen was that it should be a red card.
     
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  11. Mikael_Referee

    Mikael_Referee Member+

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
  12. Mikael_Referee

    Mikael_Referee Member+

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm surprised Fernandes got away with his challenge, to be honest. And as an aside, I try not to form too many subjective opinions on players, but boy does Fernandes incredulousness and hostility at nearly every call against him or teammates wear thin.

    I also think Ronaldo's is red, as I said above, but not surprised by the lack of intervention.

    Think everything else is the right decision.
     
  14. Mikael_Referee

    Mikael_Referee Member+

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    Taylor played this yellow card very well against that background (totally agree btw).

    I can understand why someone would come up with this tackle as SFP, but I'd even make a case that it would be *possible* to assess it as even careless. Fernandes is going to make a clean slide tackle on the ball before Jones puts his leg across, and then the United player's contact is pretty trifling.

    However, in the real world, that is a yellow card. However, I guess Taylor knew that this big dissent was coming, and an instant card was not necessary, so he waited a couple of seconds for it to come, and then booked him (you can hear him blow the whistle before the away fans cheers, so it is 'like' he cautioned him for dissent).

    At it's core, that is fundamentally unfair, I suppose - if Fernandes is stupid enough to commit a de facto clear yellow card tackle and then very clearly dissent, then as a matter of fairness, he should probably be ejected with a SYC. However, that is why we want empathic referees with football understanding, and not robots, to handle our matches.
     
  15. Mikael_Referee

    Mikael_Referee Member+

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    Ronaldo should have gone, of course, but managing the event, blah blah blah.

    Maguire is more interesting I think, because the 'foul' itself was on a player in a clear OGSO position, but these such incidents where the defender plays the ball always make me wonder whether it is 'still' DOGSO. Of course, the LotG answer is definitely yes, but I have no problem with a yellow personally.

    It is a little bit of an elephant in the room but a) Taylor relies too much on VAR with his style in the PL, and more problematically, b) with his WC 2006 style of staying in the background and not trying to actually take the initiative with cards, guide the players towards fairer play, I'm 99% sure Pogba's tackle wouldn't have happened if say Dean or Oliver handled this game. And given the seriousness of Keita's injury, that is a slightly unsettling conclusion.
     
  16. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    But isn't this fundamentally unfair?
    It is exactly what the NBA got caught doing - not disciplining big stars.

    It's very concerning as it is either a form of indirect cheating (the teams with big stars are being favored) or lack of will. Both of which are troublesome.
     
  17. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    Say what now? What are you referencing?
     
  18. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    2017-ish.
    It came out that NBA referees had been actively keeping big stars in the game because people to pay to see an NBA game to watch the big stars foul out.
     
  19. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    Got a source for that?
     
  20. SouthRef

    SouthRef Member+

    Arsenal
    Jun 10, 2006
    USA
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Without knowing anything about the NBA…

    You’ve touched on the paradox of professional athletics. You don’t have to like it or even think it’s done well, but I think it’s naive to pretend it doesn’t exist and that there are reasons that they do things differently.
     
  21. RefGil

    RefGil Member

    Dec 10, 2010
    "The Jordan Rules"
     
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  22. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Having watched this play a few times, I think not sending Maguire off for DOGSO is the right call. The biggest issue for me is the pass is behind the Liverpool player, so he has to turn around and adjust to the ball. With the number of players around the ball, I don't think that's "obvious" enough to warrant sending Maguire off. If the pass leads him properly, then I think we have a different discussion and call.

    Fully agree on other points, including the overreliance on VAR for send-offs. Like it or not, I just think the presence of VAR presents on-field referees with "well, I'm not sure, so I'll go yellow and if it's a clear send-off then VAR will let me know." I fully understand that isn't how VAR is supposed to work, but I think that's reality. It's why I have such respect for when referees make big send-off calls in real time these days, like when Oliver had a SFP send-off in the Spain-Switzerland quarterfinal at the Euros. We just don't see that many on-field SFP send-offs anymore, even if they should be pretty obvious.
     
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  23. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Fair or not, I think it is a reality of all high-profile sports (and often even at lower levels) that officials are more reluctant to send off an elite player than a scrub because it will have more impact on the game. It's not completely dissimilar to having a higher degree of certainty on giving a PK than on a call at midfield. Right or wrong, I think it is the reality of human nature.
     
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  24. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Matchweek 10

    Leicester - Arsenal
    Referee: Michael Oliver. Assistants: Simon Bennett, Dan Robathan. Fourth official: Robert Jones. VAR: Jarred Gillett. Assistant VAR: Sian Massey-Ellis.

    Burnley - Brentford
    Referee: Jonathan Moss. Assistants: Marc Perry, Timothy Wood. Fourth official: Jeremy Simpson. VAR: Andy Madley. Assistant VAR: Richard West.

    Liverpool - Brighton
    Referee: Mike Dean. Assistants: Eddie Smart, Mark Scholes. Fourth official: Chris Kavanagh. VAR: Kevin Friend. Assistant VAR: Simon Beck.

    Man City - Crystal Palace
    Referee: Andre Marriner. Assistants: Adrian Holmes, Scott Ledger. Fourth official: Anthony Taylor. VAR: Lee Mason. Assistant VAR: Ian Hussin.

    Newcastle - Chelsea
    Referee: Paul Tierney. Assistants: Constantine Hatzidakis, Neil Davies. Fourth official: Martin Atkinson. VAR: David Coote. Assistant VAR: Nick Hopton.

    Watford - Southampton
    Referee: Peter Bankes. Assistants: Peter Kirkup, James Mainwaring. Fourth official: Keith Stroud. VAR: Graham Scott. Assistant VAR: Adam Nunn.

    Tottenham - Man Utd
    Referee: Stuart Attwell. Assistants: Harry Lennard, Simon Long. Fourth official: Simon Hooper. VAR: Darren England. Assistant VAR: Stuart Burt.

    Norwich - Leeds
    Referee: Anthony Taylor. Assistants: Gary Beswick, Adam Nunn. Fourth official: Kevin Friend. VAR: Darren England. Assistant VAR: Simon Long.

    Aston Villa - West Ham
    Referee: Chris Kavanagh. Assistants: Dan Cook, Nick Hopton. Fourth official: David Coote. VAR: Stuart Attwell. Assistant VAR: Harry Lennard.

    Wolves - Everton
    Referee: Martin Atkinson. Assistants: Lee Betts, Richard West. Fourth official: Andre Marriner. VAR: Chris Kavanagh. Assistant VAR: Wade Smith.
     
  25. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    "Big" matches:

    Leicester - Man City (Community Shield): Tierney
    Tottenham - Man City: Taylor
    Arsenal - Chelsea: Tierney
    Man City - Arsenal: Atkinson
    Liverpool - Chelsea: Taylor
    Leicester - Man City: Tierney
    Tottenham - Chelsea: Tierney
    Chelsea - Man City: Oliver
    Arsenal - Tottenham: Pawson
    Liverpool - Man City: Tierney
    Leicester - Man Utd: Pawson
    Man Utd - Liverpool: Taylor
    Leicester - Arsenal: Oliver
    Tottenham - Man Utd: Attwell


    Distribution of these matches in the EPL:

    Tierney: 4
    Taylor: 3
    Oliver: 2
    Pawson: 2
    Atkinson: 1
    Attwell: 1
     

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