2020 Olympic Qualifying Team

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by AutoPenalti, Mar 29, 2016.

  1. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    A player I'd keep an eye on is Drake Callender.

    I know Kreis is high on him - he's the reason Inter brought Callender to South Florida.

    And with Luis Robles' injury, and with Miami likely to be out of the playoff race sooner rather than later, Callender will be is position to get some minutes in MLS.
     
    ussoccer97531 repped this.
  2. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    News on when qualifying might be.

    @bshredder, is there going to be a camp in November?

     
  3. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    We now have multiple MLS GKs with first-team MLS experience. (Marcinkowski, Klinsmann and Freese, oh my!)
     
  4. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The tradition seems to be that one new MLS U23 goalkeeper gets a bit of a run per season.

    Marcinkowski got a few games in 2018 (and now again in 2020).
    Freese in 2019
    Klinsmann in 2020.

    It would be nice to spread the love around a bit more.
     
  5. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Marcinkowski appears to be the No. 1 in San Jose now, and that's a huge step forward.

    I mean, he's allowing less than a goal per game. It's only 7 games, but it's also, ya know, 7 games. And when you consider that the previous No. 1 was allowing over 3 goals per game!, that's a huge improvement.

    Obviously, that's not all on the goalkeepers. But... the last time San Jose played Seattle, they gave up seven goals; last night, JT pitched a clean sheet.

    If they were done over a full season, Marcinkowski's numbers - 0.86 GAA, .750 save percentage - would have him in contention for MLS GK of the Year.

    As for getting more U23 GKs some minutes, I suspect Drake Callender will get a shot if/when Miami is eliminated from playoff contention. The one who is intriguing is Kansas City's John Pulskamp, an 01 who has become the full-time No. 2. I could see Vermes giving him a shot this season.

    I'd love to see the Union sell Andre Blake A) because I think it would be cool to see Blake playing abroad and B) because it would give Freese a clearer shot at playing time. If Blake stays, Freese will likely have to push for a move to get more minutes. (If Matt Turner goes to Europe...)
     
    Balerion repped this.
  6. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    I mean, yeah, it's only 7 games, and it's not all on the goalkeepers. But ... if they were done over a full season, Marcinkowski's numbers would have made him one of the best GKs, if not the best, in the Serie A last season. ;)
     
  7. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Marcinkowski to Juve!
     
    Dave Marino-Nachison repped this.
  8. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I know some people aren't going to agree, but I think Tim Weah is better off with the U-23's for the time being. I think players need to earn senior NT call ups.

    Between veterans like Altidore and Zardes, and younger guys like Sargent, Ebobisse, Dike, Akinola, Gioacchini, Wright, Soto, I think we have too many strikers in better form than Weah.

    The same would apply for Ferreira. I can't see how either of those guys deserve to be playing for the USMNT right now. I'd even suggest Sargent isn't too far off of deserving a demotion to the U-23's, but it's probably a little too soon to demote him, given he's starting every week for a Bundesliga club.
     
    Thundering165 repped this.
  9. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I don't agree. :)

    One, I'm not calling in Weah as a striker, I'm calling him in as a wing who could play striker as needed. But the US European segment is actually pretty light on the wing.

    Two, the guys you listed, aside from Sargent, range from MLS (likely not being called into this camp) to second division France, Denmark, and second division Netherlands. I don't advocate judging entirely on club, but the context for each of their current performance is completely different than Weah.

    Weah has performed previously for the full USMNT. He's looked pretty good in limited time in each of the last couple of stops. He looked better to me than Soto at the U20s.

    I don't get where he's suddenly more of a flier than Haji Wright or even Goiachinni, who I like.
     
  10. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I think club form has to matter with the USMNT. You can’t be calling in unestablished players who aren’t playing. I also don’t think what he did against bad competition years back should get him more of a chance over players in better form. I think all of these types of players are fliers, but I’d rather call in fliers who are in form.

    These players need to separate themselves from the pack and demand spots. Until they do that, I’d call in who is on form.
     
  11. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    The players you are calling in are much better in that respect?

    Haji Wright hits a couple of goals in Denmark -- literally 3 good games of play, and suddenly, that's good form?

    Gioachinni, who I like, has 2g in 568 minutes in Ligue 2. Is that good form?

    I've seen basically all the minutes of Weah at Lille, and I actually think he looks pretty good when he's on the pitch. It's not like he's playing poorly. He's just not playing a lot.

    The European winger/striker options aren't spectacular. Weah has shown more than enough for me then and now.

    If we have a slew of high performing players in Europe, I may agree, but we don't. Form is a tiebreaker for me. If someone is much more talented than another player, I'm bringing that guy in.

    I don't see enough European talent to keep Weah home.
     
  12. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    #1687 ussoccer97531, Oct 23, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
    I'm talking about form with these call ups, not resume.

    Wright is second in league in goals, and only has one start. I'd say thats a pretty good start. Gioacchini only has 2 goals, but he's started every game. Similar to Sargent, he may not be doing spectacular, but playing okay is better form than being unable to get on the pitch. Soto is now on five goals. Ebobisse has 9. Dike has 4G, 2A. Akinola has 8 goals.

    Maybe you are right that Weah sneaks onto the next roster, given its not going to be the full compliment of players, but if he doesn't start playing more, I don't see him as established enough to have a permanent spot on the USMNT. I think the same is true for Sargent. Among the younger players, I think only Pulisic, Dest, McKennie, Adams are probably beyond the U-23's. We have U-23 WCQ coming up, and we also have important NT games. There are going to be decisions that have to be made about who plays where. If Weah doesn't start playing more regularly, I don't see how it makes sense for Weah to play USMNT instead of U-23.

    If you also consider the entirety of Weah's pro career, he's not even played 1000 minutes, nor is he in a situation like Reyna (playing great for a very good team and sure to reach 1000+ soon). I think some have penciled him in for a permanent spot a little too soon.
     
  13. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I'm not talking about a permanent spot. I don't think there are permanent spots. But I also don't think there's some graduation level between teams.

    When you have a camp, you have a number of players and a pool. You call in the roughly the best players available for the size of camp, maybe with a couple of caveats for high potential younger players. I'm not going to call in some Lynden Gooch over Tim Weah just because Gooch is older; I'm only calling in Gooch over Tim Weah if I think Gooch is better.

    I'm also talking about the first matches we're going to have the young core of our hopefully World Cup team around, but also 7 months from the beginning of qualifying.

    I'm far more interested in actual skills, potential and where I think they will be in 7 months to 18 months than in form right at the moment. That's really what I am trying to get across.

    So for me, this about seeing guys and integrating guys who have the best shot to be Qualifying and WC contributors first and foremost. And I'm going to judge that more off skillset and tools than current form.

    And as for form... It'd be one thing if Weah looked terrible. But not playing much isn't the same as playing poorly. And Weah's competition for minutes is vastly better than Gioachinni, Wright, Soto, etc. Do we think Sebastian Soto or Haji Wright are starting at striker for Lille right now? Not only is that criteria not necessarily getting you the best player ... but it's also a generally bad idea to incent playing at a lower level to guarantee playing time.

    I don't even really dislike any of those guys - I'd probably call all of them in because beyond Sargent and Johnannson, I prefer them to most of my other options in Europe at CF and RW.
     
    don Lamb repped this.
  14. Thundering165

    Thundering165 Member+

    North Carolina FC
    United States
    May 1, 2017
    Raleigh
    I hope Weah is made available for the U23 qualifying campaign just because the domestic winger options are so poor. The best one is an 18 year old who last played for Mexico. A player like Weah would be a massive boost. I just don’t think he’ll get released. Wright and Sabbi would be great too but for right now they are key pieces of their teams and won’t go anywhere.

    For now, though, it makes sense to call him up for a European camp. Let him acclimate, practice in the system. He may not get a run out due to fitness and form but at least have him there.
     
  15. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I don't think there's a chance in hell Weah gets released for qualifying.
    Scandinavia-based guys? Hmmm.....I'm not as certain about them.
    Maybe there's a chance depending on scheduling.

    We have domestic wingers. Jonathan Lewis and company are fine for the CONCACAF level. Of course, everybody assumes MLS clubs will release their players. As Atlanta has shown us, that's not a good assumption either.

    Heck, I think the U23 level is stoooopid anyway. Our top 50 U23s should all be too important to their clubs for them to get released on non-FIFA dates. These aren't youngsters on fringes of first teams. A 23 year old of any quality should be a first team player. [This cycle its exacerbated even more as its now U24.]

    If I was emperor of CONCACAF I'd only schedule U23 events on FIFA dates. I wouldn't have one tournament at a host site. I'd spread it out over a couple of FIFA windows. Clubs still wouldn't have to release players, but they'd be more likely to in FIFA windows. It would be like......................Euro U21 qualifying.
    .
     
    Thundering165 repped this.
  16. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Winoman repped this.
  17. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 23, 1999
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I will say this, if I was the U.S. U-23 head coach for qualifying, Dike would be my starting center forward.

    He has had one good season, so it's hard to say what his long term upside is right now (although it could be high). He has size and athleticism to go along with some decent skill.

    But a U-23 qualifying tournament in CONCACAF is never going to be pretty soccer. You need to be to effective in ugly games. You can't go out and think you're going to play the beautiful game.

    Dike's size and strength make him hard enough to stop right now. I think young CONCACAF centerbacks that are mostly inexperienced and are like 21, 22, 23 years old are going to really struggle to defend someone like Dike - who has become more polished with a good pro season under his belt while being coached by Pareja.
     
  18. Thundering165

    Thundering165 Member+

    North Carolina FC
    United States
    May 1, 2017
    Raleigh
    It’s a tough competition. On the MLS side Akinola has been better getting the ball in the net and his physical strength is incredible, but he struggles with injuries. Ebobisse is a bit more flexible, better in build up, and a more of an aerial threat. Dike is on fire right now and is tremendous as a target man. He is also much less of an injury concern.

    If you can get any European players, Wright, Gioachinni, Sabbi, Soto, and of course Sargent are eligible. I feel that most of them are ahead of Dike at the moment but they all bring different strengths than Dike.

    I feel pretty good about the striker depth right now. It will mean the player who rises to the top really needs to be on their game. I think Dike would be really good, if it’s him.
     
  19. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    Obviously what you ultimately need from strikers is goals, but if Dike can make it at the MNT level he changes the makeup of the pool more than anyone else at that position (and maybe anyone at any position, but that's obviously debatable) in terms the tactical options he would offer. I imagine other MNT players are pretty excited about the possibilities.
     
    Sandon Mibut repped this.
  20. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    For comparison...

    Akinola (00) - 1063 minutes, 9 goals, 0 assists
    Ebobisse (97) - 1062 minutes, 8 goals, 2 assists
    Dike (00) - 1224 minutes, 8 goals, 4 assists

    All other U23 American forwards - nada.

    I agree with Dave that Dike could be very unique for the USMNT. Surround him with Pulisic, Reyna, Musah, Aaronson, Ledezma, Weah, McKennie, Adams, Dest and Robinson (not all at the same time) and, my goodness.

    His link-up play in transition and ability will make the rest of the team more dangerous. Conversely, those guys will be able to spread the field and either leave him open and running to goal or guarded by just one guy, whom, odds are he is bigger and stronger and faster than.

    I think Akinola is a better finisher. (And he can also play some wing.) I think Sargent is, right now, a more complete player.

    There are certain line-ups where I'd want one of those two starting. But in those rare chances where the US has its ideal player pool available, I think Dike fits best with them. And the same goes for the Olympics.
     
    Winoman repped this.
  21. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    You forgot Ferreira. He didn’t have a good season, but he did score a goal and also had an assist.
     
  22. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 23, 1999
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interview with Jason Kreis

     
    IndividualEleven and Winoman repped this.
  23. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Do we consider him a forward?

    That's a conundrum. If he makes this U23 CONCACAF Championships team, it'll probably have to be as a versatile attacking option that can play on the wing, as a #10, or as a forward. He wouldn't be a top choice at any of those positions individually, though. Based on 2020 performance anyway.

    I find it suspect that players will take part in both the U20 and U23 teams.
    It happens, but that's pretty rare.

    So I suspect that, for instance, Cole Bassett and Caden Clark are probably with the U20s. Brendan Aaronson may play for neither. We can start whittling down the options and think Ferreira might be on the roster as a #10.
     
  24. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    I didn't mean nada as in didn't score at all, I mean nada in not many other people contributed much. Mason Toye also had a goal and an assist but I'm not celebrating that. Zubak, Vasquez, Pepi, also score a bit but in the end, there's not a lot of there there this this season.
     
    ussoccer97531 repped this.
  25. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Yes, don’t mistake how he was mismanaged by FCD for doubt about his position.
     
    IndividualEleven and Sandon Mibut repped this.

Share This Page