2020 NWSL Challenge Cup Referee Assignments

Discussion in 'Referee' started by rh89, Jun 26, 2020.

  1. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    06/27/20
    North Carolina Courage vs Portland Thorns
    Zions Bank Stadium (12:30PM ET)
    REF: Lukasz Szpala
    AR1: Brooke Mayo
    AR2: Salma Perez
    4TH: Danielle Chesky

    Chicago Red Stars vs Washington Spirit
    Zions Bank Stadium (10PM ET)
    REF: Katja Koroleva
    AR1: Jennifer Garner
    AR2: Deleana Quan
    4TH: Karen Abt
     
  2. GearRef

    GearRef Member

    Manchester City
    United States
    Jan 2, 2018
    La Grange Park, Illinois
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wonder if Lukasz Szpala is a National yet? He’s been a USL/NWSL regular for a couple of years but still had a state badge during those times. This year, I know he was at National Camp. We will be seeing the PRO2 badges as well, I just wonder how many will be wearing a PRO2 badge vs. a USSF National one.
     
  3. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    I confess I don't know the NWSL refs all that well - mostly familiar with the FIFA female CRs. Hoping to learn more from this tournament.
     
  4. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's not, but it really doesn't matter any more once you're tied to PRO. There are a handful (maybe several handfuls?) of long-time MLS officials who are, in USSF's eyes, technically Grade 8s now. USSF grade status is completely irrelevant to PRO so many officials don't bother renewing anything but their bare minimum status.

    If you get pulled into PRO before you're an NR and you're getting USL whistles and MLS 4ths, the only reason I see for spending the time going to National Camp is if you want to be a FIFA one day because, technically, you need to be an NR to jump to FIFA. But even that could be massaged at the right moment, if necessary, I'm sure.
     
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  5. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just an FYI that there are only 15 officials at this tournament in total.
     
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  6. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    That's a ton of games/official! Wow! Especially at altitude!
     
  7. GearRef

    GearRef Member

    Manchester City
    United States
    Jan 2, 2018
    La Grange Park, Illinois
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So he goes to National Camp and completes all the same requirements to just get a Regional (now PRO2) badge? I assume that’s just a requirement for him from PRO so he is doing the same things the other USL and NWSL referees are.
     
  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are you talking about him specifically or a referee like him in general?

    If you're talking about him specifically and you know he went to National Camp this winter, then he's probably a national referee. My answer on his grade status was based on looking at a database and not direct personal knowledge, but maybe it's wrong and has not yet been updated.

    But if you're speaking generally and talking about National Camp when you really mean PRO camp then you're conflating two different things! The fitness tests are the same, but PRO and USSF have different camps and different selection processes. Yes, most people who are in PRO are NRs first, but it is by no means a requirement. So if PRO identifies you for USL middles and MLS 4ths when you're a Grade 5 (like they did with him and several others recently), there really is no incentive (short of the long-term FIFA aspirations I mentioned above) to go to both the PRO and USSF National Camps and jump through whatever additional hoops USSF wants you to jump through.


    I don't quite understand what you're saying here so can't tell if your assumption is correct or not.
     
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  9. GearRef

    GearRef Member

    Manchester City
    United States
    Jan 2, 2018
    La Grange Park, Illinois
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I didn’t ask him in person, but there is a picture of him with the rest of the state’s NR’s and NC’s at 2020 USSF National Camp. Another one of those USL state referees is there too, so I’m assuming that guy got bumped as well. In regards to my requirements comment, I was assuming that you had access to accurate, up to date information on his grade status, so I assumed that he was, in fact, a regional referee. This led me to assume that if a Regional referee was attending national camp, then it was a requirement for people working USL middles, National or not, to attend. Obviously this is not the case, since Szpala is now (99% sure) a National Referee. As for PRO2, since they now have their own badge, I have zero clue on if they have their own camp or own requirements when it comes to who they accept.
     
  10. Pelican86

    Pelican86 Member

    United States
    Jun 13, 2019
    NC v. Portland on CBS and CBS chose to show the national anthem. All players kneeling, refs standing (as were some of the coaches). All were wearing BLM t-shirts.
     
  11. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    Thought Szpala reffed a great game for a tricky matchup. Kept things under control while letting the players play, lots of good no-calls on hard-but-fair challenges.
     
  12. GearRef

    GearRef Member

    Manchester City
    United States
    Jan 2, 2018
    La Grange Park, Illinois
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wow just realizing this. Weren’t there a bunch more selected earlier or am I misremembering and it was always these 15 officials? I am nearly sure that more were originally scheduled to do games.
     
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #13 MassachusettsRef, Jun 27, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
    I am unaware of any public announcement about officials for this tournament. All I know is that PSRA has said 15 officials are attending. I suppose it's possible that 15 PSRA members are attending and that total is being supplemented in some fashion by non-PSRA members, but that would be a pretty strange hair to split if so.
     
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  14. Midwest Ref

    Midwest Ref Member

    Jul 25, 2002
    Szpala is a National Referee for 2020, but as MassRef points out, he was doing middles from PRO for the past few years.
     
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  15. incognitoind

    incognitoind Member

    Apr 8, 2015
    It’s 15 total. I’m also not aware of many PRO2 officials that aren’t also PSRA, especially those being used at this tournament. Each referee is slotted for 3 games with semis and finals determined based on performance.
     
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  16. incognitoind

    incognitoind Member

    Apr 8, 2015
    All of then. Different badges are used for different competitions. You wouldn’t see a national badge in favor of a PRO badge in MLS just like you wouldn’t see a nisoa badge in an ACC game. International friendlies would be where you see that badge now.

    While everything massref points out regarding national camp and PRO is true, I would say it is not the prevailing opinion to skip it in favor of being a grade 8 PRO2 ref. That camp is still good for networking, taking and passing the fitness, extra education, an opportunity for the European teams in the summer, and many other positives. Of the non national PRO2 officials, I would hazard to say most are still trying to get the invite.
     
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  17. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Obviously, this could go towards a political discussion and it is not my intention to lean it towards that.

    Leagues in the United States, especially leagues with an international contingent of players and staff such as MLS/NWSL, need to start considering not having a national anthem as part of their pre-game activities.

    It's starting to put participants in extremely difficult and uncomfortable positions. It's starting to put the referees in extremely difficult positions now.

    There have been some questions and maybe even outrage on social media as to "why didn't the refs kneel with the players as well?"

    I've always personally found the playing of national anthems at sporting events in the United States to be quite silly because as Bruce Arena so brilliantly said it we don't do that at a ballet, movies, concerts or any other forms of entertainment yet why do we do it at sports?

    Rightly or wrongly it's now becoming a politicized event now and you're going to be judged on what you do or not do during the anthem. If you kneel or do some other gesture during the anthem you could offend and upset a segment of the public and if you don't do anything at all you could offend a different segment of the public.

    Essentially, if you're not with us you're against us type of mentality and it will trickle down to lower levels like high school and college games and force officials into extremely uncomfortable positions. Essentially, they will be in damned if you do and damned if you don't positions.
     
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  18. Pelican86

    Pelican86 Member

    United States
    Jun 13, 2019
    I'm worried about what will happen during HS season (if there even is a HS season with coronavirus). I don't hear the national anthem very often before HS soccer games, but it happens occasionally. If one team kneels and the other stands, you as the ref are in a lose-lose situation. A state association that tries to issue a policy of asking all refs to stand for the national anthem is probably going to come under fire. So if it's down to you as a ref what are you supposed to do? Hide in the bathroom? Turn down games at schools that are known to play the national anthem?
     
  19. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is my understanding that there won't be anthems in Orlando for the MLS tournament. Whether that is a convenient decision for the moment that stems from or can be blamed on logistics, a precedent for all future MLS matches, or both is something only time will tell.

    Agreed. The ground has shifted very quickly--in the eyes of proponents--from it being a form of brave protest that people shouldn't be criticized for to being a necessary action that you do get criticized for if you don't take. And, of course, in the eyes of opponents it has remained objectionable. It's lose-lose for referees now.

    Specific to the NWSL issue yesterday, my further understanding is part of the issue is there was no plan from the league and no communication. In the EPL, there was clear guidance and agreement that referees would take a knee pre-match with the players. Great--everyone was on the same page. Not so here.

    And, of course in England the knee is not taken during an anthem, which does shift the nature of the action (at least in the eyes of some) from a show of solidarity to a show of political protest. So the comparisons on social media there, which seem to be driving a lot of the criticism, are apples to oranges. That is a nuance that very few people seem to want to take into account, though.

    Agreed here, too. This could be the moment for a sea change but I don't think anthems are going away permanently from sports unless MLB or NFL leads... and given everything we've seen over the past several years that seems highly unlikely to happen.

    If anthems don't go away in MLS, my personal opinion is that referees have to have a uniform response and it cannot be down to individual choice. If there is any difference in kneeling vs. not kneeling among referees, decisions and misconduct choices are inevitably going to start getting scrutinized through a racial lens for referees who don't kneel and that is not a path that anyone wants to go down.

    I'd add one other point. MLS is a league with two anthems at some games. It's also a league with Canadian officials. Kneeling during one anthem but not the other is a very bad look. And I also can't imagine Canadian officials would be comfortable kneeling for another country's anthem (and vice versa), which adds another layer of complexity to all this.

    It's a bad situation. The only good news is MLS seems to be acting smartly for the Orlando tournament and is now in communication with PRO and PSRA about this. That is something that did not happen yesterday, and the referees are paying the price.
     
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  20. ArgylleRef

    ArgylleRef Member

    Jan 23, 2004
    Lansing, KS
    As a veteran, I will continue to salute during the anthem. What the players do is their choice and I respect that. With four combat deployments, I have literally fought for their 1st Amendment rights to express themselves. I personally find it distasteful (but not an insult to me as a veteran), but the whole hubbub around it is just silly. TLDR: it is a minefield for referees based on possible mis-perceptions, I will jump in with both feet.
     
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  21. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    06/30/20
    Houston Dash vs Utah Royals
    Zions Bank Stadium (12:30PM ET)
    REF: Karen Abt
    AR1: Brooke Mayo
    AR2: Tom Felice
    4TH: Danielle Chesky

    OL Reign vs Sky Blue FC
    Zions Bank Stadium (10PM ET)
    REF: Michael Radchuk
    AR1: Stephen McGonagle
    AR2: Meghan Mullen
    4TH: Lukasz Szpala
     
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  22. GearRef

    GearRef Member

    Manchester City
    United States
    Jan 2, 2018
    La Grange Park, Illinois
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    12 of the 15 officials assigned so far. I’m almost positive Tori Penso is one of the last three, and I’ve heard Greg Dopka and Rachel Smith are the other 2, but I’m not so sure about the accuracy of that.
     
  23. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    I thought there was no anthem played in England before games? I’ve never been to a Premier League game in person so can’t verify - but thought this was a uniquely American phenomenon.

    In Italy the only game that ever plays the national anthem (beside international games obviously) is the Coppa Italia final.
     
  24. voiceoflg

    voiceoflg Member+

    Dec 8, 2005
    I know a lady who lives in England. She says God Save the Queen is not played before a regular league game. She couldn't speak to international games. She thought so but wasn't sure.
     
  25. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    I'm surprised that to hear that Penso and Dopka might be attending given that they haven't even had a 4th yet, while Abt has had a 4th and now a CR. But obviously still possible. I'm assuming Dopka and Penso would be there as CRs... would they have 6 CRs and 9 ARs? Feels a little uneven and a LOT of games for those ARs.
     

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