2020 MLS Week 21 Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by rh89, Oct 27, 2020.

  1. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    10/27/20
    Montreal Impact vs Nashville
    Red Bull Arena (7PM ET)
    REF: Ismail Elfath
    AR1: Corey Parker
    AR2: Kyle Atkins
    4TH: Thomas Snyder
    VAR: Chris Penso
    AVAR: Tom Supple

    Vancouver Whitecaps vs Seattle Sounders
    Providence Park (10PM ET)
    REF: Fotis Bazakos
    AR1: Jeff Hosking
    AR2: Jeremy Hanson
    4TH: Michael Radchuk
    VAR: Jon Freemon
    AVAR: Jason White
     
  2. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    10/28/20

    New York Red Bulls vs New England Revolution
    Red Bull Arena (7PM ET)
    REF: Alan Kelly
    AR1: Adam Wienckowski
    AR2: Brian Dunn
    4TH: Luis Arroyo
    VAR: Chris Penso
    AVAR: Tom Supple

    FC Cincinnati vs Sporting Kansas City
    Nippert Stadium (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Dave Gantar
    AR1: Andrew Bigelow
    AR2: Gjovalin Bori
    4TH: Joshua Encarnacion
    VAR: Joe Dickerson
    AVAR: Peter Balciunas

    Orlando City vs Atlanta United
    Exploria Stadium (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Alex Chilowicz
    AR1: Ian McKay
    AR2: Matthew Osterhouse
    4TH: Matt Thompson
    VAR: Jose Carlos Rivero
    AVAR: Jozef Batko

    Philadelphia Union vs Chicago Fire
    Subaru Park (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Guido Gonzales Jr
    AR1: CJ Morgante
    AR2: Eric Weisbrod
    4TH: Natalie Simon
    VAR: Younes Marrakchi
    AVAR: Jeff Muschik

    Toronto FC vs New York City FC
    Rentschler Field at Pratt and Whitney Stadium (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Nima Saghafi
    AR1: Jose Da Silva
    AR2: Tiffini Turpin
    4TH: Adam Kilpatrick
    VAR: Sorin Stoica
    AVAR: Claudiu Badea

    D.C. United vs Columbus Crew
    Audi Field (8PM ET)
    REF: Silviu Petrescu
    AR1: Brian Poeschel
    AR2: Matthew Nelson
    4TH: Sergii Demianchuk
    VAR: Daniel Radford
    AVAR: Craig Lowry

    Minnesota United vs Colorado Rapids
    Allianz Field (8PM ET)
    REF: Tori Penso
    AR1: Corey Rockwell
    AR2: Benjamin Hall-Volpenhein
    4TH: Robert Sibiga
    VAR: Jon Freemon
    AVAR: Jason White

    FC Dallas vs Inter Miami
    Toyota Stadium (8:30PM ET)
    REF: Victor Rivas
    AR1: Adam Garner
    AR2: Chris Elliott
    4TH: Elijio Arreguin
    VAR: Malik Badawi
    AVAR: Jonathan Johnson

    Portland Timbers vs LA Galaxy
    Providence Park (10PM ET)
    REF: Drew Fischer
    AR1: Kathryn Nesbitt
    AR2: Mike Rottersman
    4TH: Marcos DeOliveira
    VAR: Allen Chapman
    AVAR: Joshua Patlak

    Los Angeles FC vs Houston Dynamo
    Banc of California Stadium (10:30PM ET)
    REF: Ramy Touchan
    AR1: Cameron Blanchard
    AR2: TJ Zablocki
    4TH: Alejandro Mariscal
    VAR: Tim Ford
    AVAR: Fabio Tovar

    San Jose Earthquakes vs Real Salt Lake
    Earthquakes Stadium (10:30PM ET)
    REF: Elton Garcia
    AR1: Cory Richardson
    AR2: Ian Anderson
    4TH: Armando Villarreal
    VAR: Kevin Stott
    AVAR: Mike Kampmeinert
     
  3. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    Penso and Garcia both with more whistles.

    What's with the bold?
     
  4. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Both are returning to the field having been out for a long while with injuries.
     
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  5. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interesting straight red from Gonzales to Chicago’s Calvo in the Union-Fire match. From the main TV angle at live speed, it didn’t look like a straight red. However, the replay showed a step on Bedoya’s Achilles. No OFR done, so Marrackchi must have been satisfied that it wasn’t a clear and obvious error (which I agreed with).
     
  6. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    Garcia, IMO, holding his own very well in this and it's his 1st season.

    I think he'll be getting the USL 2020 Final whistle this weekend.
     
  7. Midwest Ref

    Midwest Ref Member

    Jul 25, 2002
    Highly doubt that as he had one of the semi-finals with the whistle.
     
  8. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    Shoot you are right...
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also because it's assigned to someone else!
     
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  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For discussion or amusement purposes. Or both.

    1321626108052213761 is not a valid tweet id
     
  11. seattlebeach

    seattlebeach Member

    AFC Richmond
    May 11, 2015
    Not Seattle, Not Beach
    Huh, I didn't have Saghafi as the most likely ref to bodyslam a player in my mental poll.
     
  12. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MassachusettsRef repped this.
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's quite similar to the Digne red card last weekend in the EPL. There, the appeal was upheld and a 3-match ban was reduced to a 1-match ban. So, translated to MLS where this only gets a 1-match ban?... Who knows?!

    And, similarly, I don't believe for a second this wasn't intentional. Same with Digne.
     
    ManiacalClown repped this.
  14. GearRef

    GearRef Member

    Manchester City
    United States
    Jan 2, 2018
    La Grange Park, Illinois
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    USL League 1 Final canceled due to several individuals from Union Omaha testing positive. Team with more points per game (Greenville Triumph) awarded trophy.
     
  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well that would have been quite the situation if Omaha had more points per game, huh?
     
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  16. SccrDon

    SccrDon Member+

    Dec 4, 2001
    Colorado Springs
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Minnesota United vs Colorado Rapids
    Allianz Field (8PM ET)
    REF: Tori Penso

    If you knowledgeable refs are interested in the opinion of a non-ref and hopelessly biased Rapids fan...

    She gave 2 cautions to Rapids and none to MNU :eek: obviously influenced by the huge MN home crowd :rolleyes:

    She did fine. Both cautions were deserved, and I don't remember any plays where I thought "that needs to be a caution on that MN player". That part of her job was made easier when Alonso went out early with an injury.

    No concerns about seeing her CR on future Rapids matches. As somebody who likes to see folks get opportunities, I'm glad to see her get chances at our top level.
     
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  17. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    Haven't we discussed previously that MNUFC likely wouldn't appeal if they didn't have assurances it would be overturned?
     
  18. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Generally speaking, teams float an appeal by the league first, but getting the nod to go for it doesn't necessarily mean it will be upheld. It's more about avoiding the need to ever hand down a punishment for a frivolous appeal.

    If Chicago suddenly decide they don't feel like appealing after all, it would be an indication that the league told them to pound sand. But even if it goes forward, it could still be rejected.
     
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  19. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Almost forgot about a very interesting video review in LAFC/HOU last night, the third of the game.

    Blessing was called for a reckless foul in the area for which a penalty was awarded. Replays showed that there was no contact. The play went to review, but for offside in the APP as opposed to no foul. The offside was given, and the yellow to Blessing stood as per protocols.

    But I have two questions:
    Was it actually a foul despite the lack of contact?
    Do protocols allow that yellow to be rescinded if it's not a foul even though the review was for the preceding offside in the APP?
     
  20. incognitoind

    incognitoind Member

    Apr 8, 2015
    Yes and yes. Once at the monitor the referee can come away with any decision they want including whether a yellow was appropriate or not. The protocols only address getting them to the monitor, for which the OS was a clear and obvious error.

    Also still a foul Or at least not clearly not a foul. Even if boot not to face it’s still leg to body

     
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  21. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh he does make some leg to hip contact, doesn't he? I got wrapped up looking for contact to the head or even the chest that I missed it on the rear angle.
     
  22. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Hmm. If he's at the monitor for OS in the APP, I'm not sure how that could get to review of the foul. The R can certainly address things that he sees in the review, but I don't know why a review for OS in the APP would include footage of the foul that came later. I don't think the concept of making a decision about what you see at the monitor is supposed to be a way to shoe horn in a separate incident from what is being reviewed.
     
  23. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Which is sort of the question I was going for even though the foul call wasn't wrong. But what if it had been wrong? Review for offside but also for no foul/misconduct? Or what if the foul is fine, but the yellow is clearly wrong? Is the VAR expected to check that misconduct as part of the review process, or is it outside protocol because it's only yellow? I just want to make sure I understand what can and can't be done (with the concession that this incident was most likely handled correctly).

    The correct restart would be IFK for the offside in any case.
     
  24. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One more thing that unfortunately doesn't have a highlight video, but you can catch it in the latest Instant Replay segment, assuming you can stomach the commentary.

    DC vs CLB, 16th minute
    Brillant is injured and receives treatment and then leaves the pitch over the goal line. Before he even reaches the corner flag, he starts asking to come back on. Petrescu initially signals for him to hold. After the ball is put into play, Brillant re-enters over the goal line, and a few moments later Petrescu actually waves him on.

    So he's definitely re-entered without before receiving permission. It's a yellow card which is correctly given as soon as the ball goes back out of play.


    But why the hell was he even eventually waved on while waiting on the goal line? He can't re-enter from there while the ball is in play!

    So let's say for a second, that Brillant waited for the signal but still re-entered across the goal line. Is he at risk for a caution, or is it purely a referee error? Law 12 only talks about receiving permission, not the boundary lines.
     
  25. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Even if it is incidental, it's a pretty clear step/rake on the Achilles. That should be a standard send-off for SFP.

    This incident and the Digne Everton incident have some similarities. While I don't know if the intent was to make contact on/near the Achilles in either case, there was at least an intent to break the play up/commit a foul. The Calvo send off looked to be more of a tactical foul gone bad in my opinion, but that makes absolutely no difference. Commentators whining about "intent" simply do not understand the conditions that go into consideration for SFP. Intent doesn't have anything to do with it, as trained referees know.
     

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