2020 Challenge Cup

Discussion in 'NWSL' started by SiberianThunderT, May 27, 2020.

  1. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    That game was amazing. Hoping they got solid ratings on CBS as there really wasn't any other sports on at the time.
     
  2. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    #202 SiberianThunderT, Jun 28, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
    One thing we haven't really discussed is what has happened with the schedule after ORL dropped out.

    With 8 teams, what happened was the pool play was essentially split into two four-team groups, with the last games of pool play being cross-group games. That is,
    Code:
    -A- : -B-
    NCC : NJ
    POR : RGN
    CHI : UTA
     DC : HOU
    Sounds like a good plan overall, but the remaining issue is rest days. Since the original schedule had just two games yesterday before a "full slate" of four games on the 30th/1st. They kept this setup for the new schedule, and ended up dropping the July 9th games so that the last games are still on back-to-back days. This means that "group A" teams have three more days of rest than "group B" teams on those final cross-group games. IMO, they should have either had the "group B only" matchday earlier in the schedule, or just re-spaced the pool play games. That is, done one of the two things:

    27th, 30th, 4th/45th, 8th/9th, 12th/13th
    27th/28th, 2nd/3rd, 7th/8th, 12th/13th
     
  3. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Sounds nice in a vacuum, but with the pandemic and everything else, it might have been simple at late notice to change the game dates of the stadium. I don't know what the preparations for sanitation between games on game days is, and what kind of schedule of cleaning crews to come in and safely reset the locker rooms and other spaces used by the teams and match officials, but I doubt it's trivial.

    The bigger question (for which the answer is probably money) is why Orlando summarily withdrew before a second round of tests, given the known issues with quality control. These sports bubbles are doing regular testing because 1) false negatives are a thing, so testing and testing again will limit that problem, 2) people who are negative may get infected and you want to catch it quickly and 3) a positive on one type of test doesn't necessarily mean an active infection, but could be leftovers from a prior infection or a false positive.

    And people that say having a large number of false positives at once doesn't make sense - you're wrong. If there's something wrong at the lab, or with a batch of tests, you're going to find a bunch of the mistakes grouped together.

    As it stands, I've only heard that the positives were negative on re-testing. Which doesn't inspire much confidence either way. It'll be interesting to see what further testing reveals. If the Pride players/staff end up being negative, it really will be terrible for the players who missed out, but it still doesn't absolve the players who broke quarantine for a night or three out drinking with friends. If they'd stayed fully quarantined, then the first thought would've been to double-checking the positive results instead of assuming they were correct.
     
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  4. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    True, but that's why I put that first option there. It's exactly the same as the original schedule, expect dropping the 1st instead of dropping the 9th like they did. (They could have also dropped the 30th instead of the 1st, but the point of my post was to get the "groups" on the same # of matches earlier rather than later.)
     
  5. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
  6. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    So now some players can stay in the ;locker room and I guess it is still a matter of choice if players kneel or stand on the field and they said nothing about game officials.

    It seems that the NWSL has not thought their policies all the way through or their communication is poor.

    Personally I agree with some others that there is no good reason to even play the anthem. It is just a ceremony with no fans to enjoy or participate in it and even when the stands are full playing the anthem simply serves to reduce the impact of our nation's song.
     
  7. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Doesn't this policy just make it worse? Now there is going to be a mix of players kneeling, standing, and not on the field at all. Given the backlash from basically all sides (particularly aimed at those that did not kneel from NWSL fans), it seems like this will just exacerbate the situation as people who stay in their locker room will likely have their loyalty to the teammates questioned as they refused to participate in the national anthem with their team.
     
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  8. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    They've turned figuring out which players aren't kneeling into a contest.

    The only way to solve this - as a team - is for all the players to stay in the locker room, which is terrible for those committed to kneeling in solidarity with the BLM protest. At least by everyone staying in, then nobody knows, and all players are in a team are equal.

    This is demonstrably worse.
     
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  9. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    It makes it worse and it complicates and it gives fuel to speculation about player motivations and choices. I think it is a bad policy.
     
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  10. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not to mention it puts the people who choose to stand in an impossible position. The primary reason I've seen for not kneeling is that while they agree with why their teammates are kneeling, they feel it is disrespectful to kneel. Given the backlash they got this weekend for standing, they are presented with the potentially more disrespectful act of skipping the national anthem entirely, opening themselves up to even more criticism by coming out and standing while their teammates kneel, or being accused of kneeling due to peer or fan pressure..
     
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  11. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Yep. It is, as I stated earlier, a poorly thought out policy. If I were subjected to that policy I would wait in the wings and walk onto the field during the anthem and stand for half of what was left and then kneel for the rest. The policy, in itself, disrespects both the players and the anthem itself and anything the players do or don't do really cannot make it worse.
     
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  12. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
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  13. guignol

    guignol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 28, 2005
    mermoz-les-boss
    Club:
    Olympique Lyonnais
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    growing up it just seemed normal to me that the SSB was played before all sporting events. now that I’ve been around and seen it’s done nowhere else in the free world it just makes me think “what is this? north korea?”
     
  14. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Even when in highschool when I was playing sports I never understood the playing of the national anthem. This was way back when the pledge of allegiance was performed every day during 1st period. and even that seemed to be a move to indoctrinate us children. Of course I never refused the pledge and I stood for the anthem but I just never felt it was really patriotic at all.

    When I graduated and entered the military and began traveling I saw that "regular", non-national, sports events in other countries never included any national anthems although in some places club anthems were played. (In many cases the was no reciprocity playing of club anthems. That is only the home team got serenaded.)

    When I returned home and found that the anthem was played at every event it became even more of an anachronism. It just makes no sense to me.

    Now, with the debate surrounding the playing and the anthem itself I really think it should be abandoned. Many "traditions" are good things and it is sad when they get dropped from their normal forums. However, in the case of the anthems before sporting events I think that is a "tradition" that has survived well past its sell by date and it stinks.

    When we are playing a national team event then it is appropriate but it is not appropriate for just regular games.
     
  15. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    It's very understandable why the anthem is played, if you've ever had a cynical bone in your body.

    Why do auto dealers have ginormous American flags?

    Why do politicians wrap themselves in the flag?

    Why do pundits and politicians score cheap points by claiming someone is "disrespecting the symbols" of America as a way to deflect from the issue really being raised?

    Anthem playing became a thing before the Star Spangled Banner was actually formally the U.S. "national anthem". During WWI it started being played before public theater performances and eventually in 1918 the World Series.

    Part of it, undoubtedly, was patriotic in nature, but the reality is murkier and more opportunistic. For the owners of theaters and baseball clubs it was a way to deflect from accusations of wastefulness during a time of war when there was rationing on the home front and American soldiers were being shipped to France, possibly to die. I mean, how can you criticize one who's honoring America?

    The other part is that the U.S. of the mid-1910s had more in common "freedom of speech"-wise with China today than we have today. The government had largely unchecked powers to control the press, and drive propaganda. It also used draconian measures against labor, suffrage, and other political movements of the day. Having the anthem, or de facto anthem, played before public gatherings was just part of the propaganda effort to quell domestic unrest and maintain political control.
     
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  16. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    But, yeah, since the first Gulf War, and various municipalities started passing laws basically decriminalizing assault on protests - especially if those protest included any "disrespect of the flag" - is when I started saying we need to stop playing the anthem at events.

    When the symbols of our freedom become more important and better protected than the freedoms they supposedly symbolize, we've slipped through the looking glass.

    We need to be able to tolerate people burning the flag. That's the very point of Freedom of Speech. We don't have to agree with it, but we need to defend the right of people to protest and demonstrate more than the things that symbolize their right to do so, otherwise it's just a sham.

    If we can just agree that we're all Americans, that would a good start.
     
  17. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was just thinking that this puts the players in the bad situation of spending time and emotional energy deciding what to do during the anthem. If I was a player I would be adamant that we all had to do the SAME thing.
    I’m assuming the 46 second kneel after the anthem is a given.
     
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  18. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    couldn't find the current live game on youtube, but found instead an replay of Spirit vs Red Stars


    Courage vs Thorns
     
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  19. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    full replay from yesterday, Houston vs Utah
     
  20. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As I watch teams arriving for the MLS tournament, I can't help but be really glad that the NWSL teams got into the "bubble" when they did. It helps being a small, flexible league, and of course, the wheels may still fall off if we start getting positives within the bubble. But, overall, props to the NWSL (so far). And I'll say it again, I hope the "village/bubble" is locked down.
     
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  21. Roger Allaway

    Roger Allaway Member+

    Apr 22, 2009
    Warminster, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This.
     
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  22. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I am mostly enjoying the NWSL matches and I am pretty sure I will also mostly enjoy the MLS matches. I am also enjoying the various matches I watch from the EPL and the Bundesliga. (Wow my spell checker has Bundesliga in its dictionary)

    Even though I am enjoying the return of soccer I do not understand why any sports league would risk lives just to play a sport. I hope that the isolation procedures work but I doubt that there will not be at least one failure amongst the restarting leagues. The fact is that isolation procedures always have a hole. That is why even with VERY heaving isolation procedures biolabs require vaccinations. To say it again, "Life finds a way."

    But it is others taking risks and I will enjoy what we get until we don't get it.
     
  23. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Projecting forward, I can see the pool play games having the teams end up with these points:

    Courage 12
    Royals, Dash, and Spirit 7
    Thorns 5
    Red Stars 4
    Reign and Sky Blue 1

    The Royals, Dash, and Spirit then would go to the tiebreakers for knockout round seeds 2 through 4. The Thorns would be in position 5 (essentially the same as 4). The Red Stars would be in position 6. The Reign and Sky Blue would go to the tiebreakers for positions 7 and 8.

    Here is the tiebreaker rule:

    If two or more teams are equal on points after the completion of the preliminary stage, the following criteria, in the order below, shall be applied to determine the preliminary round ranking:

    A) Head-to-Head (only if two teams are tied and they’ve played each other);

    B) Superior goal difference in all preliminary matches;

    C) Greatest number of goals scored in all preliminary matches;

    D) lowest team conduct score relating to the number of yellow and red cards obtained:

    yellow card: 1 point

    indirect red card (as a result of two (2) yellow cards): 3 points

    direct red card: 4 points

    yellow card and direct red card: 5 points

    Only one of the above point totals shall be applied to a player in a single match. ​

    E) drawing of lots by NWSL.

    The Royals and Dash tied so would not be covered by the head-to-head tiebreaker. The Spirit and Dash have yet to play each other in the pool stage. The Spirit and Royals will not play each other in the pool stage.

    The Reign and Sky Blue tied so would not be covered by the head-to-head tiebreaker.

    I wonder if teams will try to achieve results that will put them in what they think is their most advantageous position in the knockout bracket. I do not think so, as I think they will want to be using the remaining pool play games as tuneups for the knockout stage.
     
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  24. fire123

    fire123 Member+

    Jul 31, 2009
    I am perfectly fine with the kneeling, standing, staying in the locker room policy during the national anthem, your choice. We are all individuals that should be able to display our personal preference without any prejudice from anyone.

    The idea that everyone should stand or should kneel does not sit well with me and I imagine it does not sit well with those that feel differently from the rest of the team.
     
  25. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Unlike the article I posted earlier in the news thread, this Equalizer feature on coffee for players at the tournament isn't newsworthy. But, as a fellow coffee addict, I honestly really enjoyed it and its tidbits on the coffee truck and how its set up so teams can't spy on their opponents' practice while ordering, which players brought their own espresso machines, which drinks are the favs, etc.

    In something noteworthy from the feature though, while it was already listed under the protocols, the article confirms that opposing teams are not allowed to interact with each other. Meals, trainings, meetings, and even time at the coffee truck is staggered so players only interact with their own teammates, with games being the obvious exception.
     
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