Sometimes you choose very strange hills to die on. @Law5 was involved in the rules writing process for some time, and kinda has a pretty good idea of what he is talking about.
I can only call it like I see it. The stoppages in time for NFHS follow pretty darn closely to the reasons you would add time under IFAB. Free kicks with time close to expiring isn’t part of that list.
I'm glad nfhs is conforming, but this means our mandatory rules meeting will be 3 hours long, as I swear most of our HS officials, and some coaches, don't even watch the game. All this will be completely new to many of them. We're still explaining wait-and- see offside every year.
We had a coach invoke the “soft red” rule Friday. The referee, a very good college age ref had never heard of such a thing. The coach says it’s on the “official” roster form. The ref checks and sure enough, written on the form is that in the case of a second yellow the player is dismissed but the team doesn’t play short. So the ref checks the home team roster and it says the same thing. This is a district game between two teams with no pretensions to postseason play, so I guess the home coach doesn’t care. I coordinate between officials and coaches so Saturday I let the coaches know that rule went away seven years ago and I suggest they get updated roster forms.
There's a difference between adding time and not yet deciding that full time has been reached, i.e. when an attack is underway or a promising FK has just been awarded. Since in HS you can't not-yet decide, the tool you have is to stop the clock, which as noted is ours to determine.
With all due respect, those are the same thing. Looking down at your watch and seeing 0:00 but deciding to allow play to continue can only be justified in the laws by determining there was a reason prior to this event to add time. That’s part of the reason why adding time is superior in my opinion. You can make judgements based on what the game needs. In high school they lay out in bright crayon what they deem to be justified times to stop the clock. Free kicks are not one of them. According to NFHS timing method if the clock hadn’t been stopped for it, then time wasn’t wasted. It was part of the game. That doesn’t suddenly change because the clock is now close to zero.
I'm a little confused. First you said: Then you said: So, in the situations I posited ... let's take for example the free kick at the top of the box with time running out and the defenders loitering in front of the ball ... in a club match do you let the kick be taken and the play run its course, or do you say "tough luck, time's up" and blow?
If there is no legitimate reason to add time per the laws then yeah time is up. I’m not in this to be popular or avoid controversy. It’s no more fair to allow the kicking team to take the kick they aren’t entitled to. When the defending team is just as entitled to have the game end when time is expired. But that’s why the smart referee say “at least” before whatever time is added and know there are probably legitimate reasons they could add a few seconds more. You literally have at least 59 seconds you could allow assuming you didn’t have more reasons to add time during added time.
I think it is really simple. If a defender is "loitering in front of the ball", then stop the clock, issue a caution for delay, and continue.
This is the same as when people tell me I can't end the game (or half) on a corner kick. Oh yes I can. If time is up. I had a referee/prospective assessor tell me I shouldn't have ended a game on a corner kick, that they "earned" that kick, and that he would have dinged me if he were assessing. So, what if they would earn another corner kick, do I extend time again? What if they earn 10 CKs in a row, does the game just keep going on and on? The only thing the laws say to extend time for is a penalty kick. Rather than arguing that the offense deserves an extra chance, you can argue just as equally that the defense has defended for full time, so they deserve the whistle. The only thing you don't want to do is blow the whistle as the ball is crossing the goal line. With a countdown clock, this can happen.
You only need to do it if it delays the restart and if you’re dead set on saying the team deserves their free kick. Which I would not do. Unless I feel it truly is a delay of restart which I would have been justified to punish at any point in the match.
This happened to me in a high school playoff game this fall. The ball crossed the line and then I heard the stadium clock go off immediately. After consulting with my trail AR who was facing the clock. We put 1 second on the scoreboard and had the visitors kick off. I didn't want there to be any complaining that I allowed a goal after time had expired.
I always cringe when I hear those stories. If they don’t have a buzzer or a countdown that is perfect you’re screwed.
But what about if there is 10 seconds left on the clock, the defender does that, by the time you address it and stop the clock, we have eaten 7 or 8 of those? Will you add those seconds back so that the kick can still have a chance of reaching the net? If so, why will you do it then and why will you not do it when there is 25 minutes left on the clock? And if no, then you have just essentially allowed a denial of a potential goalscoring opportunity by time wasting that cost that team a yellow card. And this post would not exist if we were in control of the clock, as the rest of this soccer world does it...
So you guys would both be fine stopping a half or match when at the crack of 45:00 a counterattack has led to a 5-on-3 just coming into the penalty area?
Are you implying this game had absolutely NO reasons justified in the laws to add any time? If so what’s your justification to allow the attack, tradition?
First off, it takes you 7-8 seconds to determine if a restart is delayed? Second, with 10 seconds left whose to say they could get the shot off in time regardless of defenders. The fouled team is not entitled to the run of the mill free kick as time expires. That’s a fact. So we can do verbal gymnastics all you want but at the end of the day you either felt they were unfairly delayed to the point of misconduct or you’re making it up as you go.
Sorry--didn't mean to imply anything! What I meant to state is that during an attack (and this can vary with age and skill), that's not the time to end a half. This is separate from any added time, which generally where I ref isn't a consideration due to hyper-stacked schedules. I'm not talking about three minutes for subs and goals, I'm talking about 15-20 seconds to allow the attack to culminate.
Again it boils down to can you justify it per the laws. There are a lot of reasons to add time. If you can’t find one that would justify even 15-20 seconds then I’m not sure what you would have to feel guilty about. By all considerations at that point you have had the most perfect game of soccer to have been played in the history of forever.
If it takes me 4 seconds, it takes me another 1-2 seconds to blow the whistle and put my hands up for the "stop the clock" signal and then if I am lucky, I will get the clock operator stop it within another 2 seconds. So yeah, the whole consequence does.