2020/21 Hot Seat

Discussion in 'Women's College' started by Chris Mahr, Aug 13, 2020.

  1. collegesoccer1234

    collegesoccer1234 New Member

    Jun 19, 2015
    This is the perfect example of why women’s soccer is such a mess. You can’t truly, factually say that he is not a good coach. He’s had success everywhere he has gone. You can not like someone and that person also be a good coach.

    Still love how there have been no specific examples mentioned of the so called abuse (pushed a player to the ground on day 1- GTFOH, that makes me not believe the allegations even more…. Feels a lot like most of the other cases where complaints are made and because it’s womens soccer the admin chooses to just move on and pay a settlement to the coach. Student athletes these days know the buzz words and throwing out words like mental abuse is like saying chest pains in the ER to get your way.

    There are legal definitions of these allegations and usually when nothing nothing specific or immediate comes out- it means that general counsel told the AD he didn’t do anything illegal, but it’s not worth the headache so pay him to leave.
     
    Footyballs and Fitballer repped this.
  2. ytrs

    ytrs Member

    Jan 24, 2018
    Was he successful at Villanova? I would say he was not to this point.
     
    winwinchick repped this.
  3. Collegewhispers

    Oct 27, 2011
    Club:
    Columbus Crew

    I would agree that we should wait to hear the examples of abuse and why he was canned. The Cal investigation of McGuire’s abuse proved to be total bull so I think reserving judgement on what actually happened at Villanova is prudent. Not saying he didn’t abuse the athletes just not saying he did either. Administrations seem to be very trigger happy nowadays
     
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  4. staffstaff

    staffstaff Member

    Sep 12, 2016
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Poor results might have had something to do with it too. He was let go right after the 5-0 thumping from Georgetown. Poor results accompanied by a headache prior to the start of basketball season is never a good combination.
     
  5. Collegewhispers

    Oct 27, 2011
    Club:
    Columbus Crew

    I don’t think poor results had anything to do with it with the timing. Poor results mean you are fired at the end of the season not during.
     
  6. staffstaff

    staffstaff Member

    Sep 12, 2016
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Poor results in combination of being a headache did him in before the end of the season. The end was near regardless of the issues surrounding him.
     
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  7. Fall2021

    Fall2021 New Member

    Manchester United
    Brazil
    Oct 20, 2021
    College Whispers, "You cannot like someone and that person also be a good coach???" That couldn't be further from the truth. The list is so long, but are athletes supposed to like and respect a coach that trash talks, belittles, personally insults, instills fear, mind games & intimidation towards his players?
    The athletes want nothing more than to respect their coach and to feel like they are safe, trust, learn & grow through his leadership. Student-athletes should never be put in the position to have to choose between the sport they love and their mental health.
     
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  8. SoccerTrustee

    SoccerTrustee Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I have no inside info on what happened at Villanova, so that's why I asked for specifics on what is going on there. Still don't know. Someone mentioned players being shoved and intimidated for five years which I am looking at with a strong dose of skepticism. McLain still listed as the head coach today. I will agree with the others and say let's wait and see. I waited to see what happened with Neil Maguire among players complaints and he's still the head coach at California. If this is a case of a team of lushes that want to drink while somehow calling themselves D1 athletes with entitled parents paying $75K/year questioning a weak administration until they get their way, then let's see what shakes out. Or if there were abusive tactics I'll wait to hear that as well, which to this point nothing specific has been mentioned to that point.
     
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  9. PlaySimple

    PlaySimple Member

    Sep 22, 2016
    Chicagoland
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I'm confused about your comment here. I agree with you that athletes should not like and respect a coach that trash talks, intimidates, instills fear in his players, and all of that. What I'm confused about is the quote that you attributed to collegewhispers. I did not read that and even went back up a few posts from collegewhispers and didn't read anything like it in those posts either. Perhaps I did not look carefully enough.

    I am not commenting on McLain here because I don't know specifics. A coach can and should be firm with players and hold players accountable. That is what a good coach does. A coach can do that and still be well-liked and respected. Some of my kids have had coaches that they felt were too "soft" and friendly with players and they thought that it was weird. Those coaches were actually not respected and liked as much by the players as the ones that were more firm.

    There is a HUGE difference between a coach being a disciplinarian, firm yet fair, one that holds players accountable vs a coach that is abusive. The two are in no way analogous. One is a good coach and the other is a bad coach. Again, this is not a commentary on Chris McLain because I have no idea what kind of coach he is. I mentioned in an earlier post that we know some players that were at Ohio State when he was there and there was never any mention of abuse by those players.
     
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  10. staffstaff

    staffstaff Member

    Sep 12, 2016
    Club:
    AC Milan
    If you know anything about sports in Philadelphia, you would know that it is never acceptable for Villanova to get embarrassed by LaSalle in any sport. That 4-0 thumping to LaSalle in COVID season put CM on secret probation. It didn’t help that loss was followed by another defeat to the other school the Villanova University administration feel are not at their level, Temple 3-0. Temple was coming out of chaos and starting the rebuilding process with new players and a new coaching staff. Those two defeats were followed by another at the hands of Drexel. LaSalle and Temple are dropped from 2021 schedule and Villanova picks up two other local schools in Rider and Penn. With the new coaching staff at Penn in their first non COIVID season it seemed like and best proposition from a local standpoint, however it didn’t play out that way with Penn winning 2-0. These results would put any Villanova coach of any sport in jeopardy. He was going to be let go at the end of the season based on performance, regardless of players being dissatisfied for whatever reasons. CM was hired to move the program forward, and that didn’t happen. Villanova has not surpassed any of the other Philadelphia area programs, and the administration are fully aware. Take Fran out of the equation and the program is right back to where Byford left it, although the Byford staff wasn’t without its scandals, the players enjoyed playing for him. It was rare to hear anything negative about Byford other than maybe his tactics. He is a good man. Villanova moved on from him to because they felt the program could be more. Villanova should be one of the top programs in the Big East and certainly should be able to separate itself from the Philadelphia area universities, but that has not happened. I have no inside info on these other allegations, but the results were not good enough. Why now is a fair question.
     
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  11. latearriving

    latearriving New Member

    I have no favorites
    England
    Oct 29, 2017
    You seem invested in downplaying the situation at Villanova, which is a clear indicator that you don't know what has been going on there. While the statements made in previous posts by myself and others alleging abuse have not been made lightly, they represent in some ways only the tip of the iceberg.

    You're also raising a straw man to argue against by misconstruing what was said earlier. The specific statement was "...his inability to lead without screaming at, publicly belittling, grabbing, or shoving players to the ground has from day one been a huge problem." No one alleged that all of his misbehaviors manifested themselves on the first day or even in the first month. The actual point made in the independent clause is "...his inability to lead [prepositional phrase elided] has from day one been a huge problem." FWIW, I do have dates and locations of examples, but those will have to be shared--or not--by the young ladies involved.

    I'm curious, though. Why do you think you are entitled to know the details of what happened? You are not the one who gets to hear the complaints, examine the facts, and render a decision. Neither is this forum the place for so doing. You're certainly not required to believe anything in particular and can think and express whatever opinion you wish. But what is your argument why the details of painful, humiliating experiences reported to the administration by dozens of players should be shared here publicly? I've said enough here that anyone who has seen the program's issues from the inside over the past five years understands. My objective is not to prove the case--that has finally been handled by the university--but rather to let it be known that McLain is a real problem who shouldn't be entrusted with coaching female athletes at any level.

    And for anyone wondering why his name is still on the web site, it's simple: the school hasn't announced the action yet. The information that has been posted here was leaked (and confirmed) from within the program. That's how the news is out before the university planned to make it public.
     
  12. Top90

    Top90 New Member

    Wolves
    United States
    Feb 20, 2020
    #937 Top90, Oct 21, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
    The information that has been posted here was leaked (and confirmed) from within the program. That's how the news is out before the university planned to make it public.[/QUOTE]


    You do realize this is an anonymous board and nothing has been "confirmed" from within the program.
     
  13. Collegewhispers

    Oct 27, 2011
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    I don’t think it was me who said that. All I have said is I am waiting to hear what he actually did before making a judgement. Similar to the Cal situation which turned out to be fake.
     
  14. outside63

    outside63 Member

    Jul 15, 2010
    Do you have a link to the results of the Cal situation showing that it was fake, or just that Cal chose not to act?
     
  15. Collegewhispers

    Oct 27, 2011
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Internal investigation so there won’t be anything released publicly.
     
  16. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    I agree, but in a world where everyone has a voice via social media, things have changed. What players used to say in a team dynamic that never left locker rooms or small groups now has the potential to be seen by so many more people and the results of perception have an even lower standard of proof now than they ever have.
     
  17. Left Winger

    Left Winger New Member

    Arsenal
    United States
    Oct 20, 2021
    “Fake” seems a bit strong when a dozen players went on record for a tv news story just a year ago. Apparently the school concluded the allegations merited something short of termination, and a coach like the Cal coach with a relatively long track record of success probably gets more benefit of the doubt than a guy in his first hc job who has gone 13-29-3 in conference over five years, has a very poor record of retaining the top players he recruited, is the subject of numerous complaints about his conduct, and has managed to alienate many of the players and families who are involved in and support the program.
     
  18. outside63

    outside63 Member

    Jul 15, 2010
    So nobody knows whether if the allegations were fake, or if Cal chose to ignore the allegations and protect the abuser. Given the long documented history of universities doing the latter, saying the allegations are fake is problematic.
     
  19. PlaySimple

    PlaySimple Member

    Sep 22, 2016
    Chicagoland
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    This is really unrelated to this thread but I am going to mention it because there was mention of players at Villanova drinking. It was mentioned as if it is a problem. It really isn't fair to mention it at all. It probably isn't even fair to mention it if it is confirmed.

    Any coach is naive if he or she thinks that some players don't drink alcohol during the season. There will definitely be some players that don't drink simply because they don't like to drink. Some coaches that I know have a "24/48" rule when it comes to alcohol. What that means is that there is no drinking 24 hours before training and 48 hours before a match. Those coaches do ask that players be responsible if they choose to drink and not get hammered. If one were to look at the entire calendar of a season, that would be a very limited number of times that a player would have an opportunity to drink.

    There are other coaches that try to prohibit alcohol altogether. From what I know, the coaches that say "absolutely no alcohol" during the season have fewer players comply and have more of a problem, than the coaches that have something similar to a 24/48 rule. I'm sure that not all players will comply with a 24/48 rule but those teams seem to have fewer issues related to drinking than the ones that try to prohibit alcohol altogether. Additionally, players seem to hold each other accountable more when there are less strict limits put in place.

    I know that I'm jumping topics but since alcohol was mentioned I commented on it here.
     
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  20. Collegewhispers

    Oct 27, 2011
    Club:
    Columbus Crew

    Or the administration deemed the complaints merit less. Such as a player suing the university for being cut. Either way the internal investigation cleared the coach or wrongdoing. The Villanova investigation clearly went a different direction than Cal and they found merit in the complaints so I will be interested to hear what actually happened.
     
  21. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    On this, I do not agree. As recent events in the NWSL show, simply doing an internal investigation and firing a coach is not a sufficient remedy, even if the results of the investigation are passed to a higher level. If there is abuse worthy of firing, the only way to put a stop to that kind of behavior is to change our culture about it. And a prerequisite for the needed cultural change is for whoever knows about it to make it, and the details about it, public. And, there should be no excuses from anyone for not doing that kind of outing. Otherwise, there always will be excuses and it will be business as usual.

    (This is not a comment on the specifics of the Villanova situation.)
     
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  22. collegesoccer1234

    collegesoccer1234 New Member

    Jun 19, 2015
    Here’s what I love about your response:

    1) you ask about “why the details of painful, humiliating experiences reported to the administration by dozens of players should be shared here publicly” then you say “rather to let it be known that McLain is a real problem who shouldn't be entrusted with coaching female athletes at any level.”

    I’m guessing if there are “dozens of players” complaining it probably doesn’t involve him sleeping with players or anything in that nature. Then you say he shouldn’t be coaching female athletes. I thought they were just athletes? Why does he need to treat them any different- don’t they want the same rights, recognition, etc as male athletes? A couple schools made up shirts saying Female athlete with a strike through the word female.

    2) you ask why I should get to know the details? When you break the news that a coach was fired mid season and did awful things, usually people want to know what happened. Hopefully it was a principal based decision because usually when it is- you have no problem releasing the reasoning and details of why you let the coach go. You can hide names, etc. and tell what happened rather than hiding behind this blanket statement of “mental abuse.”

    3) I have no ties to Villanova. I’ve always thought McClain was a prick back when he was at Ohio State and Colgate. Just because he is an ass though doesn’t he should should be exiled from the profession. But if he did do truly abusive things and is a piece of shit, he needs to be exposed with specific details, not narratives about abusive male coaches and blanket statements.
     
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  23. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    "Just because he is an ass though doesn’t he should should be exiled from the profession. But if he did do truly abusive things and is a piece of shit, he needs to be exposed with specific details, not narratives about abusive male coaches and blanket statements."

    Like Anson Dorrance was? He is still coaching and being revered. Have behaviors really changed or is the distinction just winning? The winning coaches behavior is called tough and the losers abusive. Paul Riley was a serial winner while the alleged behavior was rife. You can be exposed with specific details and still continue in judgement on others.
     
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  24. winwinchick

    winwinchick Member

    Celta Vigo
    United States
    Nov 13, 2019
    It’s pretty terrible that certain individuals are still coaching women today that have a pattern of disturbing behavior and it’s just as troubling that we all know what took place over the years but his friends still find it acceptable to help him get other jobs and stay in the business. The AD’s helping to cover up this nonsense because it’s bad press should be held accountable too. Those that knew and don’t do anything about it you should face consequences.
     
    2233soccer repped this.
  25. Collegewhispers

    Oct 27, 2011
    Club:
    Columbus Crew

    If you are referring to the NWSL incidents then I totally agree. When it comes to Villanova we don’t even know what the abuse was so it would be good to know and be able to decide based off of information
     

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