2020-2021 UEFA Referee Discussion [R]

gold4278 · Sep 15, 2020

MassachusettsRef said: ↑

Looks like it got announced Sunday, so got to presume this appointment was considered prior to the knowledge of this announcement. https://apnews.com/af7e03891cdebdc9eb507094401b5146

So, who knows?! Lockdown starts this Friday, and the match is next Thursday, so flying for the match appears like it would require an exception to the lockdown.
Click to expand...

Looks like he is in Ukraine today for the Dynamo Kiev/AZ game, so maybe he just won't return to Israel until after the Super Cup?

Mikael_Referee · Sep 18, 2020

Talking about the newly promoted referee from the Faroe Islands, Høvdanum, as a matter of chance his game from yesterday was abandoned and completed this morning, so I got the chance to watch him referee. A short report:

Riga FC - Tre Fiori
Kári Jóannesarson á Høvdanum

[Game restarted at 26', analysis is only from play today]

Key Match Incidents:

60' Missed penalty for Tre Fiori (treading)
https://streamable.com/fd2r85

Other relevant incidents:

29' YC (Tackle)
https://streamable.com/k0wp6i

32' Freekick, no sanction
https://streamable.com/von1ee

35' Freekick, no sanction
https://streamable.com/qc1ie5

36' Management [incident missed by the director]
https://streamable.com/ftx9xq

39' YC (Tackle)
https://streamable.com/cbv0y8

56' Freekick, no sanction [only goal scored direct from the freekick]
https://streamable.com/t91hg0

58' YC (Tackle)
https://streamable.com/hza0j1

74' YC (SPA - Holding)
https://streamable.com/5hdxnz

84' No foul / advantage, no sanction
https://streamable.com/cz9ecd

88' YC (SPA - Holding)
https://streamable.com/ym4fnl

-> Overall Kári Jóannesarson á Høvdanum showed to be a good referee. You can argue that he should have issued some more cautions, but actually I thought he handled the game sensibly and well.

Unfortunately he missed a clear penalty for defeated Tre Fiori at 60' - Høvdanum was a bit unlucky, as one would expect a classic tripping foul, and instead a treading / stamping foul took place which he missed; Rune Pedersen's mark should be 7,9 based on play this morning.

Høvdanum showed his promotion to 2nd Cat. was on made on merit - now, the challenge for UEFA is to incrementally increase the quality of his appointments (performance dependant) as this game was pretty agricultural and is hardly a strong step towards eg. an EL Group Stage début.

balu · Sep 18, 2020

Brisard will be in action in the EL Third Qualifying Round, along with Pawson, Hernandez Hernandez, Sanchez Martinez, Letexier, Siebert, Mariani, Madden, Gestranius, Jug, Verissimo, Martins, Bognar, Stefanski, Rumsas, and Gozubuyuk.

London_ref · Sep 21, 2020

Playoffs first legs

22 September

Slavia Prague - Midtjylland
Referee: Cüneyt Çakır (TUR)
Assistant Referee 1: Bahattin Duran (TUR)
Assistant Referee 2: Tarik Ongun (TUR)
Fourth Official: Mete Kalkavan (TUR)
VAR: Abdulkadir Bitigen (TUR)
AVAR: Hüseyin Göçek (TUR)
UEFA Referee Observer: Konrad Plautz (AUT)

Maccabi Tel-Aviv - Salzburg
Referee: Michael Oliver (ENG)
Assistant Referee 1: Stuart Burt (ENG)
Assistant Referee 2: Simon Bennett (ENG)
Fourth Official: David Coote (ENG)
VAR: Christopher Kavanagh (ENG)
AVAR: Andrew Madley (ENG)
UEFA Referee Observer: Juan Fernández Marín (ESP)

Krasnodar - PAOK: Clément Turpin (FRA)
Referee: Clément Turpin (FRA)
Assistant Referee 1: Nicolas Danos (FRA)
Assistant Referee 2: Frédéric Haquette (FRA)
Fourth Official: Frank Schneider (FRA)
VAR: Willy Delajod (FRA)
AVAR: Jérémie Pignard (FRA)
UEFA Referee Observer: Uno Tutk (EST)

23 September

Olympiacos - Omonoia
Referee: Danny Makkelie (NED)
Assistant Referee 1: Mario Diks (NED)
Assistant Referee 2: Hessel Steegstra (NED)
Fourth Official: Allard Lindhout (NED)
VAR: Jochem Kamphuis (NED)
AVAR: Kevin Blom (NED)
UEFA Referee Observer: Charles Schaack (LUX)

Molde - Ferencvárosi
Referee: Carlos del Cerro Grande (ESP)
Assistant Referee 1: Roberto Alonso Fernández (ESP)
Assistant Referee 2: Pau Cebrián Devís (ESP)
Fourth Official: Guillermo Cuadra Fernández (ESP)
VAR: Juan Martínez Munuera (ESP)
AVAR: Ricardo de Burgos Bengoechea (ESP)
UEFA Referee Observer: Cyril Zimmermann (SUI)

Gent - Dynamo Kiev
Referee: Ovidiu Haţegan (ROU)
Assistant Referee 1: Octavian Șovre (ROU)
Assistant Referee 2: Sebastian Gheorghe (ROU)
Fourth Official: Sebastian Colţescu (ROU)
VAR: Massimiliano Irrati (ITA)
AVAR: Ciro Carbone (ITA)
UEFA Referee Observer: Nicola Rizzoli (ITA)

RedStar91 · Sep 21, 2020

Does anyone know if the UEFA referee observer is actually in attendance in the stadium these days with Covid?

Also, I always wonder what is the point of these observers especially to some of the bigger referees? How much weight do their observations/evaluations carry? I know every now and then Collina served as one and that obviously mattered, but how much for the majority of the other games?

What can Konrad Plautz report about Cakir's match management or change the way he is going to referee at this point in his career?

At least Plautz made it to the latter stages of Champions League and refereed in the Euros. So there is credibility.

But what can an Estonian referee (Uno Tutk) relate to Turpin or an observer from Luxembourg to Makkelie or Cyril Zimmerman to del Cerro Grande?

I always think that most of these observer gigs are just basically "the gold watches" (retirement gifts) of refereeing in UEFA. Basically, a thank you for your years of service to the game. All expenses paid trip to watch a football match.

Or am I completely wrong?

MassachusettsRef · Sep 21, 2020

I think you're mostly right, @RedStar91. My impression is certain people matter as finals or tournament candidates are vetted and candidates for promotion are considered. So the observers can matter a lot for certain referees or at certain points in the season. You can more or less see when that's happening (Rizzoli on Hategan matters; Tutk on Turpin does not). But not much otherwise.

@Mikael_Referee or @allan_park would likely be able to speak with relative authority here, though.

greek ref · Sep 23, 2020

In terms of observer appointments, there are certain people who are considered pretty important observers and are appointed frequently.

Of course all the committee members and the development panel are appointed mostly on referees that are candidates of promotion or demotion. For example, on the 3rd Q. of EL Vassaras has Mariani (UEFA, 1st) and Fandel has Hernandez Hernandez (UEFA, 1st). Both referees were promoted recently and they need a good observer (coach) in order to advise them.

Moreover there is a group of observers that are appointed on CL-EL Group Stage and some of them on experienced referees (for example Tutk, Bozinovski, Deaconu, Zimmermann, Murat Ilgaz and many others).

Finally I wouldn't read so much on observers appointments on qualifiers. Group stage matches on CL-EL are more important on a referee's development.

allan_park · Sep 24, 2020

MassachusettsRef said: ↑

I think you're mostly right, @RedStar91. My impression is certain people matter as finals or tournament candidates are vetted and candidates for promotion are considered. So the observers can matter a lot for certain referees or at certain points in the season. You can more or less see when that's happening (Rizzoli on Hategan matters; Tutk on Turpin does not). But not much otherwise.

@Mikael_Referee or @allan_park would likely be able to speak with relative authority here, though.
Click to expand...

That pretty much sums things up accurately. The only thing I might add is that sometimes you need to look at things the other way around - as MassRef says, Rizzoli on Hategan matters (a lot) to Hategan, whereas Tutk on Turpin does not. However, Tutk getting the exposure to Turpin might mean something in terms of the development of the Observer.

As for the earlier question from RedStar91, yes, the Observers are still travelling and are physically in the ground, even in these Covid times.

With that last point in mind, and to update on some earlier comments from me, all the Officials have now been given "elite Athlete exemption" status that allows them to travel without the need to observe isolation rules when they return home - provided, of course, that they comply with all the protocols in place and do not travel outside the "bubble" they are put into on arrival at the host venue.

That is subject to change at any time, of course, and can be overridden if situation requires it - like Israel, possibly - but for now the officials can travel back and forth quite freely.

socal lurker · Sep 24, 2020

Don't think I've ever seen this before: around the 65th minute of the Super Cup, Sevilla defender lies down behind the wall with his back to the wall. Presumably to avoid any possible contact with an arm that the R might decide met criteria for a handball?

RefIADad · Sep 24, 2020

socal lurker said: ↑

Don't think I've ever seen this before: around the 65th minute of the Super Cup, Sevilla defender lies down behind the wall with his back to the wall. Presumably to avoid any possible contact with an arm that the R might decide met criteria for a handball?
Click to expand...

Well, that and probably keeping the "family jewels" out of harm's way as he's laying on the ground!

HoustonRef · Sep 24, 2020

socal lurker said: ↑

Don't think I've ever seen this before: around the 65th minute of the Super Cup, Sevilla defender lies down behind the wall with his back to the wall. Presumably to avoid any possible contact with an arm that the R might decide met criteria for a handball?
Click to expand...

I've never seen it either, although I haven't seen nearly as many matches as most of you. It was obviously to block the ball if it was kicked on the ground and the wall jumped up (which it did.)

socal lurker · Sep 24, 2020

HoustonRef said: ↑

I've never seen it either, although I haven't seen nearly as many matches as most of you. It was obviously to block the ball if it was kicked on the ground and the wall jumped up (which it did.)
Click to expand...

Yes--I've seen a player lie down before (though it isn't common), but it was facing away from the kick/wall that struck me as really unusual. Brave dude . . .

balu · Sep 25, 2020

balu said: ↑

Brisard will be in action in the EL Third Qualifying Round, along with Pawson, Hernandez Hernandez, Sanchez Martinez, Letexier, Siebert, Mariani, Madden, Gestranius, Jug, Verissimo, Martins, Bognar, Stefanski, Rumsas, and Gozubuyuk.
Click to expand...

Brisard did use his red card again, but this time produced only one yellow in LASK's 7-0 win over DAC.

gold4278 · Sep 25, 2020

socal lurker said: ↑

Don't think I've ever seen this before: around the 65th minute of the Super Cup, Sevilla defender lies down behind the wall with his back to the wall. Presumably to avoid any possible contact with an arm that the R might decide met criteria for a handball?
Click to expand...

Have you ever seen the commercial where the defender does this and the ball hits the crossbar, bounces back, and does the job anyway? One of my favorite adverts of all time.

greek ref · Sep 27, 2020

UCL Play OFF 2nd Leg

Tuesday 29 September

29 September 2020, 21:00 CET - Nicosia (GSP)
Omonoia FC (CYP) - Olympiacos FC (GRE)
Referee: Antonio Mateu Lahoz (ESP)
Assistant Referee 1: Pau Cebrián Devís (ESP)
Assistant Referee 2: Roberto Díaz Pérez del Palomar (ESP)
Fourth Official: José Luis Munuera Montero (ESP)
Video Assistant Referee: Alejandro José Hernández Hernández (ESP)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Ricardo de Burgos Bengoetxea (ESP)
UEFA Referee Observer: Alain Hamer (LUX)
UEFA Delegate: Kris Bellon (BEL)

29 September 2020, 21:00 CET - Budapest (Ferencváros Stadion)
Ferencvárosi Torna Club (HUN) - Molde FC (NOR)
Referee: Björn Kuipers (NED)
Assistant Referee 1: Sander van Roekel (NED)
Assistant Referee 2: Erwin Zeinstra (NED)
Fourth Official: Serdar Gözübüyük (NED)
Video Assistant Referee: Pol van Boekel (NED)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Dennis Higler (NED)
UEFA Referee Observer: Lucílio Cardoso Cortez Batista (POR)
UEFA Delegate: Danilo Filacchione (ITA)

29 September 2020, 21:00 CET - Kyiv (NSK Olimpiyskiy)
FC Dynamo Kyiv (UKR) - KAA Gent (BEL)
Referee: Szymon Marciniak (POL)
Assistant Referee 1: Paweł Sokolnicki (POL)
Assistant Referee 2: Tomasz Listkiewicz (POL)
Fourth Official: Paweł Raczkowski (POL)
Video Assistant Referee: Pawel Gil (POL)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Tomasz Kwiatkowski (POL)
UEFA Referee Observer: Karen Nalbandyan (ARM)
UEFA Delegate: Miroslaw Ryszka (POL)

greek ref · Sep 28, 2020

Wednesday 30 September

30 September 2020, 21:00 CET - Herning (Arena Herning)
FC Midtjylland (DEN) - SK Slavia Praha (CZE)
Referee: Damir Skomina (SVN)
Assistant Referee 1: Jure Praprotnik (SVN)
Assistant Referee 2: Tomaž Klančnik (SVN)
Fourth Official: Rade Obrenovič (SVN)
Video Assistant Referee: Massimiliano Irrati (ITA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Ciro Carbone (ITA)
UEFA Referee Observer: Markus Nobs (SUI)
UEFA Delegate: Loukas Siotropos (GRE)

30 September 2020, 21:00 CET - Salzburg (Stadion Salzburg)
FC Salzburg (AUT) - Maccabi Tel-Aviv FC (ISR)
Referee: Felix Brych (GER)
Assistant Referee 1: Mark Borsch (GER)
Assistant Referee 2: Stefan Lupp (GER)
Fourth Official: Daniel Siebert (GER)
Video Assistant Referee: Bastian Dankert (GER)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Marco Fritz (GER)
UEFA Referee Observer: Mehmet Murat Ilgaz (TUR)
UEFA Delegate: Markus Stenger (GER)

30 September 2020, 21:00 CET - Thessaloniki (Stadio Toumba)
PAOK FC (GRE) - FC Krasnodar (RUS)
Referee: Daniele Orsato (ITA)
Assistant Referee 1: Alessandro Giallatini (ITA)
Assistant Referee 2: Fabiano Preti (ITA)
Fourth Official: Daniele Doveri (ITA)
Video Assistant Referee: Marco Guida (ITA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Filippo Meli (ITA)
UEFA Referee Observer: Pascal Garibian (FRA)
UEFA Delegate: Kieran O'Connor (WAL)

RedStar91 · Sep 29, 2020

Two interesting VAR interventions from the Real Madrid vs. Betis match over the weekend.

One incident shows the drastic lines of intervention between leagues and the other is showing how VAR is turning the sport into penalty kick ball.

First is a red card for DOGSO called via VAR at the 4:20 mark in the video.

It's a foul, but I don't think the bump sets off the attacker that obviously enough to warrant VAR intervention. I have my doubts if this is sent down in MLS or the EPL.

Notice the long delay that the AR had for offside initially.

The second is a penalty for handling via VAR. I guess it's handling via law, but you can't see that in real time.

I really don't know what can be done about the handling via VAR. I don't think this is sustainable. The sport isn't designed for a penalty kick every match.

They either have to scrap VAR, allow way more subjectivity and discretion in the hands of the referee or create some kind of new restart for handling via penalty kicks. Maybe an indirect free kick in the penalty area?

MassachusettsRef · Sep 29, 2020

And the final set...

RedStar91 said: ↑

First is a red card for DOGSO called via VAR at the 4:20 mark in the video.

It's a foul, but I don't think the bump sets off the attacker that obviously enough to warrant VAR intervention. I have my doubts if this is sent down in MLS or the EPL.
Click to expand...

No idea on EPL because they are recalibrating, but I think that gets sent down in MLS. It's a clear foul and it's a clear DOGSO situation. Once you determine the offside is wrong, it's really the only choice. Notice how everyone expects it. It's a good lesson in that if you consistently call this stuff (which happens in Spain), then people will understand it and even expect it.

The second is a penalty for handling via VAR. I guess it's handling via law, but you can't see that in real time.
Click to expand...

This one is much more interesting. Because while it completely fails my own personal test of "is this a travesty that needs to be rectified?" given, you know, literally no one noticed... it also is a pretty clear handling violation that takes away a shot on goal. And I guess this highlights the problem with trying to draw subjective lines on VAR intervention for handling.

I really don't know what can be done about the handling via VAR. I don't think this is sustainable. The sport isn't designed for a penalty kick every match.

They either have to scrap VAR, allow way more subjectivity and discretion in the hands of the referee or create some kind of new restart for handling via penalty kicks. Maybe an indirect free kick in the penalty area?
Click to expand...

Except what about deliberate handling that truly stops a goal or OSGO? IFAB has been crazy recently, so I could totally see a scenario where they try to delineate between deliberate handling being a PK and non-deliberate handling being an IFK. Of course, that would just lead to even bigger messes and more pressure on referees and VARs.

There is no easy solution here.

Chaik · Oct 1, 2020

There's no VAR in the qualifying stages of the Europa League, but Spurs' Matt Doherty was just penalized for handball in the box in a much more ridiculous decision than Eric Dier's.

Edit to add: Maccabi was just penalized for handball in the box moments later! And it was just as ridiculous!

ManiacalClown · Oct 1, 2020

Just look like bad calls to me as opposed to players running afoul of the Law changes.

At least on the second one I can imagine the ref thought it came off the right arm.

balu · Oct 5, 2020

Kateryna Monzul will referee the UEFA U21 qualifying match between Lithuania and Greece. She will be assisted by her usual assistants Oleksandra Ardasheva and Maryna Striletska, and Anastasia Romanyuk will be fourth official.

MassachusettsRef · Oct 6, 2020

A longer look at that Spanish DOGSO is worth it solely to see how badly out of position the AR was! https://streamable.com/maiqqa

Also, I caught this penalty from last week. It's the type of call we almost never see but we always hear we should see more of particularly if we're serious about head injuries. So... here's a careless strike by the goalkeeper on an attacker: https://streamja.com/Jor1l

MassachusettsRef · Oct 6, 2020

So, as far as international matches go, some pretty big ones on Thursday in UEFA. These are the rescheduled EURO 2020 playoff semifinals, which were supposed to be in March. Single elimination matches with the winners for each league path meeting in November to determine the final four spots for the tournament.

Iceland : Romania - SKOMINA (SVN)
Bulgaria : Hungary - MARCINIAK (POL)

Bosnia-Herzegovina : Northern Ireland - MATEU LAHOZ (ESP)
Slovakia : Republic of Ireland - TURPIN (FRA)

Scotland : Israel - HATEGAN (ROU)
Norway : Serbia - ORSATO (ITA)

Georgia : Belarus - CAKIR (TUR)
North Macedonia : Kosovo - MAKKELIE (NED)

So, Brych, Kuipers, Taylor and one wild card seem like the obvious options for the playoff finals. Cerro Grande, Oliver and Zwayer all seem options for the fourth slot--maybe Collum if he's not completely out of favor. That assignment will send a big signal about picks for next summer.

MassachusettsRef · Oct 8, 2020

Four out of eight of these going to extra time simultaneously... high-pressure refereeing for the next 30 minutes by four of Europe's best (and three candidates for the 2021 UCL Final + the 2020 referee).

Mikael_Referee · Oct 8, 2020

Makkelie was absolutely formidable tonight - wow! His manner on the pitch is one of the best I've ever seen. Whatever you think of current refereeing trends it is a pleasure to watch him handle his matches.