2020-2021 UEFA Referee Discussion [R]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Aug 14, 2020.

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  1. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    He's looking right at it. It's a red card, but you can plausibly justify a yellow. But nothing? No foul? No card?

    I get that UEFA want low key refereeing, but if you're going to go down the route that they seem to be advocating just change the laws of the game to allow a team to replace a red carded player.
     
  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What I find most fascinating of the whole thing is that it "worked." Like, no one really cared.
     
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  3. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Must have been a big drop in standards though. Several Welsh and N.Ireland referees have been at previous World Cups!
    (Yes I know a prominent FIFA VP was from N. Ireland but...)

    PH
     
  4. Mikael_Referee

    Mikael_Referee Member+

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
  5. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    How can it even be a foul? He got ball. :rolleyes:
     
  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes.

    And I think that still needs to be red at any level below the professional/international game. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if UEFA is okay with (or even wants) a yellow here. And therein lies the problem. People see this and they emulate it. And then when it gets red in your local amateur game, they point to it only being a yellow here. And more players attempt tackle like this at all levels. And, eventually, you'll see more horrific injuries again.

    I think you'll hear a defense of yellow because of point of contact, mode of contact, contact with the ball, etc. There are factors that can justify a yellow card if we just get into the "check-the-box" mode of refereeing where we go through a laundry list of factors and over analyze. But at a base level, this tackle had excessive force. And if this tackle didn't actually endanger the safety of the opponent, it was only by sheer dumb luck. It was completely unnecessary and I think a red card is the best option at all levels.
     
  7. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    Thank you! I completely agree. Decisions like this (if UEFA agrees) set really bad precedent for us at lower levels.
     
  8. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Any time I see a player launch himself/herself like this, I'm on red alert (no pun intended). That kind of launch definitely can get into the excessive force part of this pretty quickly.
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Both an Irish and a Welsh (as well as an additional Scottish) referee are working the UEL second qualifying round, so fear not @Pierre Head!

    Frappart is also working again (though a Swedish club against a Gibraltarian might not be super competitive). @Mikael_Referee , the Faroese referee we noted, a Hovdanum, "only" has Riga versus a San Marino club, though he does have former World Cup referee Rune Pedersen assessing... any idea what to make of that?

    Anyway, lots of assignments, as has been noted. But the UCL third round qualifying ones, with some familiar names, are:

    Dynamo Kyiv : AZ - GRINFEELD (ISR)
    PAOK : Benfica - BRYCH (GER)
    Gent : Rapid Wien - EKBERG (SWE)
    Omonia : Red Star - KAVANAGH (ENG)
    Maccabi Tel Aviv : Dynamo Brest - MASSA (ITA)
    Ferencvarosi : GNK Dinamo - STIELER (GER)
    Qarabag : Molde - JOVANOVIC (SRB)
    Midtjylland : Young Boys - KABAKOV (BUL)

    Brych and Kavanagh are the names that stand out to me, but for different reasons. Brych because it's odd to see a former UCL Final Referee at this stage (though, perhaps understandable giving the clubs involved). Kavanagh because that's a possible signal that he is now England's #3 in Europe--then again, Marriner and Pawson both played around with matches at this level so maybe we're still in trial and error phase.
     
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  10. London_ref

    London_ref Member

    May 6, 2014
    London, England
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Indeed it is strange to see Brych... He's officiating the Greek cup final couple days before this - so why not if he's in the immediate area.

    Kavanagh's youth league final performance must have been well received I guess... He struggled in that game imo; but Rosetti and co. seem encouraged.
     
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  11. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Unless this was already planned? I mean, if you're comfortable trying someone out on the Youth League Final, you've got to also be comfortable with a first leg qualifier here, right? One bad performance shouldn't break a referee's entire season, which is what that would have done if you deny an appointment at this stage (because then he's definitely not getting a group stage match).
     
  12. London_ref

    London_ref Member

    May 6, 2014
    London, England
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    I agree. For the most part Kavanagh has impressed - which his recent promotion to the 1st category validates.
     
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  14. allan_park

    allan_park Member

    May 15, 2000
    Just a minor point for clarification, this round of UCL qualifiers is still only a single match.

    It is only in the next round (Play-Offs) that we revert to the normal 2-leg format.
     
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  15. London_ref

    London_ref Member

    May 6, 2014
    London, England
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Interesting, I heard rumblings that Brych was getting the assignment. Thanks for the link. In that case disregard my previous theory...no idea why Brych was assigned to this round.
     
  16. Mikael_Referee

    Mikael_Referee Member+

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    Tricky to say how important an observer Pedersen is nowadays - he has been switched out of his post at the NFF for Terje Hauge and Rosetti will trust different men than Collina did, also geographical considerations are important. But surely remarkable nonetheless.

    Frappart's performance in Malta - Latvia was quite poor by the way.
     
  17. Mikael_Referee

    Mikael_Referee Member+

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    It's surely not a coincidence that Brych handled this exact game in 2018 and doing a very good job, both teams likely asked for him again. Also PAOK were very dissatisfied with Craig Pawson's handling of their match at this stage with Benfica last year, which probably gave them more bargaining power.

    To be honest I simply cannot believe Kavanagh's assignment, to say UEFA are dicing with death is quite the understatement. Of course, he has my best wishes!
     
  18. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I’d be interested in her performance. I couldn’t get home in time enough to record her match. And didn’t see any highlight package.
     
  19. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did anyone watch Marseille-PSG yesterday? Sounds like it went completely off the rails, with a mass fight at the end of the game and Neymar alleging racial comments directed at him per the espnfc.com article I read.
     
  20. allan_park

    allan_park Member

    May 15, 2000
    Yes, it was not a pretty sight.

    To be honest, and this is not being "wise after the event", I never felt comfortable the whole game. Now, obviously I didn't expect it to finish with 12 Cautions and 5 Send-Offs, but from very early on it was simmering and seemed to just be just one incident away from a flashpoint.

    While there were no particularly significant "issues" as such, Brisard just never seemed in control. The level of dissent that was being tolerated for relatively innocuous things, and the number of times he allowed players to physically chase him demanding PKs, etc was typical of how things were being managed, and were just not what one would expect from a Referee of his experience. I would go so far as to say that if you watched this game without knowledge of the teams or Referee you would think that it was someone who had been promoted maybe a level or two above his "comfort zone". It just seemed too big a game for him, somehow, on this particular night.

    All together a very uncomfortable 90+ minutes, and while the players have to take responsibility for the debacle at the end, I do think the seeds were sewn much earlier by a very passive performance by a Referee who should know better.
     
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  21. London_ref

    London_ref Member

    May 6, 2014
    London, England
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
  22. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  23. London_ref

    London_ref Member

    May 6, 2014
    London, England
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Any idea when the lockdown starts? Presumably UEFA think they can fly him out and back before it commences?
     
  24. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Looks like it got announced Sunday, so got to presume this appointment was considered prior to the knowledge of this announcement. https://apnews.com/af7e03891cdebdc9eb507094401b5146

    So, who knows?! Lockdown starts this Friday, and the match is next Thursday, so flying for the match appears like it would require an exception to the lockdown.
     
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  25. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Apparently that UEFA page has a typo? Everywhere else it's Grinfeld, not Grinfeeld :D

    Anyway, what a year for Taylor.
     

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