2019 Week 19 MLS Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by ManiacalClown, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    07/12/19

    D.C. United vs New England Revolution
    Audi Field (7PM ET)
    REF: Drew Fischer
    AR1: Philippe Briere
    AR2: Brian Poeschel
    4TH: Lorant Varga
    VAR: Sorin Stoica
    AVAR: Thomas Supple

    Houston Dynamo vs Los Angeles FC
    BBVA Stadium (9PM ET)
    REF: Armando Villarreal
    AR1: Jeffrey Greeson
    AR2: Jeff Hosking
    4TH: Guido Gonzales Jr
    VAR: Kevin Terry Jr
    AVAR: Jonathan Johnson

    LA Galaxy vs San Jose Earthquakes
    Dignity Health Sports Park (11PM ET)
    REF: Nima Saghafi
    AR1: Logan Brown
    AR2: Mike Rottersman
    4TH: Rosendo Mendoza
    VAR: Chico Grajeda
    AVAR: Cameron Blanchard

    07/13/19

    Montreal Impact vs Toronto FC
    Saputo Stadium (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Ted Unkel
    AR1: Brian Dunn
    AR2: Jason White
    4TH: Marcos DeOliveira
    VAR: Geoff Gamble
    AVAR: Peter Balciunas

    Orlando City vs Columbus Crew
    Exploria Stadium (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Dave Gantar
    AR1: Richard Gamache
    AR2: Kyle Longville
    4TH: Elvis Osmanovic
    VAR: Caleb Mendez
    AVAR: Kevin Klinger

    Chicago Fire vs FC Cincinnati
    SeatGeek Stadium (8PM ET)
    REF: Fotis Bazakos
    AR1: CJ Morgante
    AR2: TJ Zablocki
    4TH: Farhad Dadkho
    VAR: Younes Marrakchi
    AVAR: Eric Weisbrod

    Minnesota United vs FC Dallas
    Allianz Field (8PM ET)
    REF: Baldomero Toledo
    AR1: Jeremy Kieso
    AR2: Gjovalin Bori
    4TH: Christopher Penso
    VAR: Alejandro Mariscal
    AVAR: Robert Schaap

    Real Salt Lake vs Philadelphia Union
    Rio Tinto Stadium (10PM ET)
    REF: Silviu Petrescu
    AR1: Oscar Mitchell-Carvalho
    AR2: Claudiu Badea
    4TH: Michael Radchuk
    VAR: Allen Chapman
    AVAR: Jeff Muschik

    Vancouver Whitecaps vs Sporting Kansas City
    BC Place (10PM ET)
    REF: Ramy Touchan
    AR1: Chris Wattam
    AR2: Andrew Bigelow
    4TH: Mark Allatin
    VAR: Alex Chilowicz
    AVAR: Mauricio Navarro

    Portland Timbers vs Colorado Rapids
    Providence Park (11PM ET)
    REF: Kevin Stott
    AR1: Jose Da Silva
    AR2: Chris Elliott
    4TH: Matt Franz
    VAR: Ricardo Salazar
    AVAR: Jennifer Garner

    07/14/19

    Seattle Sounders vs Atlanta United
    CenturyLink Field (3:55PM ET)
    REF: Robert Sibiga
    AR1: Nick Uranga
    AR2: Eduardo Mariscal
    4TH: Joe Dickerson
    VAR: Ricardo Salazar
    AVAR: Joshua Patlak

    New York Red Bulls vs New York City FC
    Red Bull Arena (6:30PM ET)
    REF: Alan Kelly
    AR1: Corey Rockwell
    AR2: Matthew Nelson
    4TH: Jon Freemon
    VAR: Drew Fischer
    AVAR: Thomas Supple


    First MLS assignment for Jennifer "Alias" Garner.
     
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  2. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've been wondering what she was up lately since In haven't seen her in much. Loved her in Alias ;)

    EDIT: Should have scrolled to the bottom to see @ManiacalClown beat me to the joke :D
     
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  3. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Please take note that there has been a weather-related swap.

    DC vs NE: Ted UNKEL

    MTL vs TOR: Drew FISCHER
     
  4. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    Note: Bazakos was not on the referee crew
     
  5. Thegreatwar

    Thegreatwar Member

    Seacoast United
    May 28, 2015
    New Hampshire
    I was quite baffled by Ted Unkel’s threshold for reckless fouls in DC United vs NE Revs. He gave out tons of YCs even though:
    1. The game was far from rough; it wasn’t necessary from a game management POV
    2. Many of the YCs wouldn’t have been given as fouls in other MLS games I’ve seen recently

    Also the 2nd YC to the Revs player was probably the hardest foul of the game to that point (I can only think of one prior to that where I thought ‘deserved yellow’.

    The previous time I saw Unkel on TV (last week I think) I thought he did much better.
     
  6. stangspritzring

    stangspritzring Member+

    Apr 3, 2006
    NorMD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I dunno, man. As soon as I see Unkel I think "inconsistency." The foul in which Arriola received his yellow was incidental contact and the NE player mistouched the ball and fell after the contact, when there was already separation between the two players. Arriola probably did deserve a yellow on the night for PI, but it shouldn't have come until somewhere in the second half. Also, he called a foul on Arriola for undercutting a charging Rev's player in the second half when Arriola was stationary and watching the ball, and the Rev's player charged into him and went over his back.

    Then there was this gem:

    https://t.co/7iHSNiabWq
     
  7. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    That’s a great clip.

    Is that a penalty? yes?

    Is it a clear and obvious error? I think not. If we could calibrate VAR intervention to allow for plays like these, I think VAR would be in a more healthy place.

    We won’t make everyone happy (and we’ll be LESS technically accurate), but we can try and recapture some of the flow, fluidity and life that VAR has sucked out soccer.
     
  8. stangspritzring

    stangspritzring Member+

    Apr 3, 2006
    NorMD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Every foul call is subjective, when it gets right down to it, and I don't think there's a single corner kick or other set piece near a penalty box in which a foul couldn't be called. But, as I started with, Unkel's inconsistency ruins the flow of a game as much as VAR, if not more.

    Unkel had a clear line of sight to the infraction. It's evident the defender has a hand full of jersey as he's backing away from Brillant and falling backward. Unkel's positioning is great for the play....but he doesn't call it.

    Earlier in the game, there's a 50/50 challenge in the box on a set play, and literally as soon as the ball is kicked, he blows the whistle and indicates a foul in NE's favor. The players aren't sure what's being called, or even where to place the ball for the free kick, until he goes and gestures. That's how incidental the contact was.

    So, when you call nothing (or bite on a simulation), but then ignore real and obvious infractions, is that a well-officiated game? I don't think so.

    Note, regarding the foul-that-wasn't, nobody was calling for VAR at that point in the match, as has been done in past matches, where a ref otherwise had a decent game.

    They were, however, quite vocal at the questionable officiating performance throughout the game, and that's probably a bit worse....
     
  9. TheRealBilbo

    TheRealBilbo Member+

    Apr 5, 2016
    So, Dom Dwyer... Any thoughts of further action by the league?
     
  10. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I predict +2 to the automatic suspension for a total of 3.
     
  11. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    @stangspritzring to be clear, I didn’t watch the game. I was just making an observation in general about that play in a vacuum.
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In a normal league it’s a 3-game auto ban and we don’t have to go through this charade. I wonder if that sort of deterrent would stop a star player from doing something so blatant and stupid in stoppage time when his team has a lead.

    I mean, maybe not. But we can dream.
     
  13. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
  14. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    That was ugly
     
  15. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    What just happened in the NY derby, and what’s the way to handle it?

    AR clearly signals a corner kick. Red Bulls take throw-in instead, and they score.

    NYCFC protests, surely arguing that they were setting up for corner kick and not paying attention to a ball that was erroneously put back in play?
     
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  16. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    37469029-21F3-4788-B81E-C309781714A2.jpeg Certainly looks like he signaled for a corner.
     
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  17. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    I “think” what happened is Allan Kelley overruled AR decision that it was a corner? In any case it was not a good look. Not VAR-able.
     
  18. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    It’s interesting.
    The decision as to whether it was a corner or throw is not reviewable.

    But, if it was called a corner (not just a mistaken signal), and it was restarted improperly would be reviewable as a lead up.

    Guessing they decided it wasn’t a corner but a bad flag.
     
  19. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    Are you sure ? CK/TI is not reviewable in the lead up to goals, as I understood.
     
  20. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    I agree
    But I believe an improper restart is
     
  21. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    Ha! According to the broadcast I was right!
     
  22. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    As suspected, the CR deemed it was a throw.
     
  23. Ismitje

    Ismitje Super Moderator

    Dec 30, 2000
    The Palouse
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Callens - the NYCFC player who cleared the ball initially - looked like he disagreed that it was a corner, shaking both his head and his finger at the AR.
     
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  24. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    it’s a disaster, right? But I think this falls on Kelly.

    Rockwell signals CK. At this point, if Kelly has actually signaled throw-in (we have not actual confirmation this really happened) then he really has to whistle to get everyone’s attention to let the world know he’s overruling him. In no scenario can Rockwell insist it’s a corner kick.

    The problem here is that whether or not Kelly actually signaled throw-in (I have my doubts, because a lot of MLS CRs don’t bother signaling throw-ins particularly deep in the AR’s quadrant, but he might have done so), he de facto sanctioned the restart simply by allowing it and not correcting it. He can’t suddenly say, after the dribble, pass, cross and header, that THEN he realized it was really a corner kick. There’s no safety hatch for this screw-up. If he did that, NYRB would rightly accuse him of just making things up to save himself.

    This should have never happened. But once it did, it was unfixable.

    It will be interesting to learn if Kelly actually overruled Rockwell and didn’t make it clear (which is pretty bad) or he didn’t realize Rockwell signaled corner and/or that NYRB restarted with a throw-in (which would be really bad). Only a very wide camera shot will be able to give us the correct insight.
     
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  25. Geko

    Geko Member

    Sacremento Geckos
    United States
    May 25, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It’s almost as if the referee has the final authority.
     
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