Review: 2019 U-20 World Cup Review

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by tbonepat11, Jun 8, 2019.

  1. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #101 50/50 Ball, Jun 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019


    @grandinquisitor28

    [QUOTE="grandinquisitor28, post: 37873382, member: 1987

    My other miss was Wood, who was a flat out miss. I understand that most are totally over him at this point, but I view him as the best over 23 forward in the program. Unlike Altidore, he produced in difficult circumstances and on the road and against quality and difficult competition. People love Altidore because he's more talented,since the '09 Confederations Cup, zero goals all time versus Mexico/Costa Rica in WC Qualifying, and injuries knocking him out of WC '14 and Copa Centenario '16, make him the inferior option. Seems like Wood is on the outside looking in right now, which I view as a mistake. He's not at the level of Sargent, but after Sargent, there isn't another forward in the program I'd trust AT ALL in a game against Mexico, Costa Rica or Honduras more than Wood, and I can hear the laughter, but unlike Altidore, Wood has scored against Mexico and Costa Rica in major competition, and he scored on the road in the Hex in Central America, something Altidore rarely (if ever) does (I can't remember if he's scored on Honduras on the road, I know he hasn't against Costa Rica or Mexico, on the road or at home). I'll grant that Wood is in an awful place professionally right now, but unlike Altidore, I trust Wood to be able to finish, when gifted the chance by a guy like Pulisic, or Weah or whomever. Altidore I only trust at home against Patsies. That's it. Went off topic there.[/QUOTE]
     
  2. Peretz48

    Peretz48 Member+

    Nov 9, 2003
    Los Angeles
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  3. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I think Zardes speed is overrated because he looks like he should be fast. Plus, speed in soccer is mitigated by reaction; and Zardes doesn't move until seconds after other players would.

    But that aside, he is absolutely the bar. He is one of the top 2 strikers in our player pool according to GB.
     
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  4. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    What pushes me closer to the "he will make it," side of the ledger is the 17 goals and 6 assists he had for Hannover last year. That's pretty gaudy production for a guy just getting his feet wet in Europe for the first time (debuted last summer). Of course it's all incredibly early, and who knows how this all plays out and in my absurdly long post from yesterday, it does appear our scouting and development of Forward prospects for the U20 squad over the past 8 cycles has been a total and complete s show, but I do think he's in the top 5 of the most promising prospects since 2003 (I'd put him a touch higher than that). High hopes, cautious optimism, and some measure of gun shyness even in my excitement for the kid. Heck he doesn't turn 19 until next month, so he was doing this as an underage prospect as well.
     
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  5. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    [/QUOTE]

    What I don't see there, again, is what I've said in all my critiques of Altidore:

    Zero goals in major competitions since 2009(The Gold Cup is our confederation championship, but it's not a major competition. When you have only two teams winning the titles going back literally to when Bill Clinton was still president, you don't have a legit major competition) and zero goals scored against Mexico and Costa Rica all time in hexagonal qualifying. ZERO.

    See my point here. I have been and was an Altidore touter going back to his draft year in MLS a gazillion years ago. Was a big fan, and for a while there the trajectory looked really good, was huge against Spain in the Confederations Cup, may not have scored in WC '10, but he did provide the assist to Bradley on the equalizer against Slovenia and things seemed to be revving full bore. Then the perennial hammy injuries began, what had been a minor issue in '09 bloomed into a catastrophic issue going forward (flat out collected all goals against Concacaf competition patsies in qualifying, and the vast bulk of them were scored at home).

    What I find amusing about that tweet is that it basically lists a wonderful scoring record in a vast collection of matches that flat out don't matter. You know what was missing?

    Goals scored in the WC ('10, '14, '18 (failed to qualify) ): 0

    Goals scored against Mexico in WC Qualifying (2009, 2013, 2017): 0

    Goals scored against Costa Rica in WC Qualifying (2009, 2013, 2017): 0

    Matches in which he scored in the catastrophic 2017 hexagonal: 1

    Goals scored in the run of play in the 2017 Hexagonal: 1 (scored a 2nd on a PK)

    Major Tournaments missed due to injury: 2 out of 4 (Missed WC '14, and Copa Centenario '16, played in Confederations Cup '09 and WC '10).

    You could say I'm cherry picking, and maybe I am, but you'd also need to own, what critical, difficult games do the United States play in cycle after cycle?

    World Cup Matches

    Copa Centenario Matches (1 time event)

    WC Qualifying Matches against Mexico and Costa Rica.

    That's it. Nobody on the planet is going to call the Gold Cup a legit competition. It's a joke, and don't even get me started on the bi-annual stupidity which results in us lifting half-arsed joke trophies like the '17 Gold Cup crown, while the far more important World Cup Ticket was fumbled away at freaking Couva (if anything indicts the Gold Cup more than the fact that the '17 winner finished fifth in qualifying behind freaking Honduras and Panama, I don't know what it is). Nobody is ever going to give us credit for pulling off road draws against Concacaf competition not named Mexico or Costa Rica, they are all road apples for world powers and even second tier sides.

    As such, what games matter? Home and Home's with Mexico and Costa Rica, the World Cup, and the rare Copa America we can attend (now that the Confederations Cup has been flushed). And these are the games, (along with any hexagonal roadie against almost any side) that Altidore doesn't show up for.

    I couldn't give less of a <censored) what he does in the MLS playoffs. I couldn't care less that he collected a bushel of goals while playing at home in the Gold Cup. I care about what he does in games that matter against difficult competition, and honestly, he doesn't do squat, like ever. Well, in fairness, like in a decade. I don't know what the hell happened. It may just be a sample size issue, but it sure as heck doesn't feel like it when you see him pile in the goals against a country that sounds like a cocktail last cycle in the semifinal round of qualifying, but starts putting up zero after zero the second he has to travel on the road to any side in the hex (particularly any side in Central America/Mexico). The trends are there. He's scored a ton of goals for the US, but goals in big games and big moments? It's been a decade since we've seen it. If it's at home and it's against a patsy, he's your man, if it isn't, "taxi!" so to speak.

    Again, it could be sampling, he's had what, 6 total games against Mexico/Costa Rica in qualifying and that's basically what, 8 or 9% of his career matches. He missed WC '14 and the Copa Centenario, so it's not really his fault that he didn't score in those tourney's if he never had a chance in the first place. Then again at this point, that's a part of the deal with Altidore. If you bet on him, you have to insure that bet w/a backup plan because he gets an absurd amount of soft tissue injuries, so it's a part of the flaw in depending upon him at this point. It's a part of the package. Considering the big goals against Brazil at the U20 WC, the huge goal against Spain, the knock down header for the equalizer against Slovenia in '10, he always had the potential to be a stud in big games against legit competition. Unfortunately, that was it. Since that knock down to Bradley he hasn't provided a single big moment for the US against a legit side in a big game that matters. Not one. Other than missing WC '18, there are few things that could've shocked me more than being told that that would be his future back in 2010 after that Slovenian match. I just flat out couldn't have believed it, but reality is reality, it doesn't care about expectations or feelings.
     
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  6. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @grandinquisitor28 we aren't going to agree on Jozy. I just posted that for people who may not realize that he has an exceptional scoring record in Cup games.

    You are doing reverse alchemy as far I can see to spin goals into straw.

    If you want to continue with the discussion, Let's take it to his thread in N&A.
     
  7. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Nothing could make me happier than him proving me wrong. Goals against Mexico and Costa Rica? Yes please. Not going out in the first 20 vs Ghana, yes please. Not missing the Copa Centenario, again I’d take that. Reverse alchemy? This is history.

    You’re right, though, wrong forum. Had to respond as you were quoting me.
     
  8. yabo

    yabo Member+

    Jun 1, 2000
    Poolesville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Watching Ukraine vs. Japan. Both teams seem more physically mature, and in general, they have more team speed. I liked our technical ability. That's a change from previous teams.
     
  9. Mario Balotelli

    Mario Balotelli Member+

    Feb 28, 2012
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ukraine beats South Korea 3-1 to win it all. Congrats to them -- they were easily the best defensive and most organized team in the tournament. Tsitashvili, Bondar, Popov, and Lunin look like they have great futures ahead of them.

    Ecuador won the third place game against Italy yesterday.

    Out of all the teams they played, I'd say the US and SK gave Ukraine the most problems. I felt that we had chances in both of our games against them and a few tactical lapses and severe lack of first team experience cost us (also some poor lineup choices from Tab). Looking back on how the tournament played out, I'd say this tournament was a success for the US.
     
  10. Quaker

    Quaker Member

    FC Dallas
    Apr 19, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The US had a 3-2 record in the tournament, but the two losses were both 2-1 against the eventual champion and third-place teams. And we beat a highly-rated French squad in the knockout round. In retrospect, I’d count our U20s as among the top teams in the tournament. Really quite encouraging.
     
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  11. frankburgers

    frankburgers Member+

    May 31, 2016
    No way Mendez should be here. Weah should be there somewhere
     
  12. dougtee

    dougtee Member+

    Feb 7, 2007
    ugh what could’ve been x2 for tab especially
     
  13. ielag

    ielag Member+

    Jul 20, 2010
    Ukraine had 16 players born in '99 and 12 of those were born in January and February! That's a physical advantage, but also that group had mostly played together for years.

    Our 99's were: Scott, Servania, Rennicks, Real, McKenzie, and Pomykal. And, Paxton is 15 days too old to be an '00.
     
  14. Master O

    Master O Member+

    Jul 7, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It'll probably be the only "success" the US has for generations, given how inept the senior team's "leadership" is.
     
  15. Sizmik

    Sizmik Member+

    Dec 21, 2011
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You mean Paxton
     
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  16. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pomykal for Dortmund? He kind of has that look.
     
  17. Sizmik

    Sizmik Member+

    Dec 21, 2011
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i want him to go to the Erid....he needs to develop some attacking presence. His passing is great, his vision is great but he doesnt have that killer attitude in the box. Hes got enough defensive movement to be a really good 8, he needs to get that attacking presence down and then he will take his next step. Thats my opinion anyway
     
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  18. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He hasn't shown it yet for FCD full team but he sure did for the Academy. Hoping to see that part of his game as he becomes more comfortable in MLS.
     
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  19. NietzscheIsDead

    United States
    May 31, 2019
    Interestingly enough, the U20 World Cup has never been held in the USA.

    The highest US finish? The 1989 squad finished 4th and won the Fair Play Award.

    The 1989 squad featured the legendary Steve Snow, Mike Burns, Chris Henderson, Troy Dayak, Curt Onalfo, and the venerable Kasey Keller. They placed second to Brazil in the group stage, having drew with Mali (1-1) and beaten East Germany (2-0). In the round of 16, the US bested Iraq (2-1). In the quarterfinal, the US was beaten by Nigeria 2-1 in extra added time. In the third place playoff, the US team was beaten by Brazil 2-0.

    So, in 30 years, our boys have not been able to repeat or beat the success of the Keller/Snow crew.
     
  20. NietzscheIsDead

    United States
    May 31, 2019
    I am interested to see how Paxton finishes out the year...to see if he takes this tournament and begins to assert himself more in MLS.
     
  21. NietzscheIsDead

    United States
    May 31, 2019
    Top US players:
    1 - Weah
    2 - Pomykal
    3 - Richards
    4 - Soto
    5 - Dest
     
  22. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Mendez dropped off a bit in his last two games but can easily see a neutral observer put him in their side after his first two.

    Unfortunately, not surprised to see an "American" fan object.

    I dont have a strong view either way but very much agree with his assessment of mendez...

    Alex Mendez (USA / Freiburg): incredible creative passer, good decision maker and, most of all, so so much god damn fun to watch.





     
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  23. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    What are you suggesting as it relates to the US Soccer?
     
  24. NietzscheIsDead

    United States
    May 31, 2019
    I really enjoy Mendez. He may be my favorite of that group.

    His vision and passing nuance is unusual. If he gets stronger, he will play for a great club. I could see him in Italy.
     
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  25. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    A separate league for low IQ players, no mixing of course.
     
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