2019 Gold Cup Referee Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, May 17, 2019.

  1. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    Let’s get ready to rumble!
     
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  2. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One word-CONCACAF.

    And these salmon shirts the crew is wearing in the Honduras-El Salvador match are brutal.
     
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The no card approach from Guerrero is interesting.

    On the one hand, I think thus far it’s actually limited the expected gamesmanship. Knowing that the threshold for a card is so high has dissuaded either team from spending too much energy on acting or baiting opponents.

    But it’s obviously a calculation that can only work with these two teams playing each other and can only work until it stops working. I think I’ve counted four challenges that would absolutely have to be cards if either of these teams were playing USA, MEX or CRC. Plus the opportunity for PI.
     
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  4. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I should add that Honduras believing they can win and El Salvador believing they have a knockout stage game coming up both help support his “management” approach immensely. If those beliefs get altered...
     
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  5. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    USA : Panama - AL JASSIM (QAT)
    Guyana : Trinidad & Tobago - CALDERON (CRC)

    Part of me wondered if they would do this. I think two matches was liked required for Al-Jassim as part of the exchange. This “big” one satisfies that without having to give him a knockout match. Also preserves López and makes the next stage a little easier to manage.
     
  6. seattlebeach

    seattlebeach Member

    AFC Richmond
    May 11, 2015
    Not Seattle, Not Beach
    GU18 Semifinals of Regional Championships, tied in 88th minute. Stop for possible injury, possession change, I’m dropping the ball in front of benches, facing away. Make eye contact with both teams, everyone nods, they talk about kicking it back, I make it clear I’m about to drop the ball, drop it and one player starts dribbling away. Girls start yelling, coaches start screaming. She loses the ball, thank goodness. I find out from the 4th that the coaches were in each other’s faces when they realized that they were both angry at the dribbler.

    Ok, back to gold cup.
     
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  7. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    It worked, overall it worked quite well. That was not the second half I was expecting, and I was happily wrong. Credit to the referee, credit to the teams.
     
  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    84’ tackle from Trinidad & Tobago player is a clear red card that barely got a foul call. And then huge protests that the ref had the audacity to do even that.

    I think even with high VAR standards, that would be a red. VAR is really going to be a game changer for CONCACAF when it finally comes. At least, it should be.
     
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  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #84 MassachusettsRef, Jun 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
    I remain skeptical of the overall approach.

    I’m fine the way he came out, which was to try to ensure he didn’t overblow what the players accepted as little things. That part worked. That part was smart and a good gamble.

    But then I felt there was a point where black and white lines got crossed and he just kept going with the path of no resistance.

    Yes, it never did blow up. But I’d say for the final third and maybe even the whole second half, a lot of luck was involved. There’s a point where calculated management just crosses into ignoring misconduct. And he definitely got there at some point after the teams switched ends.
     
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  10. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    I thought he had crossed over the line in the first half, for example, his early warning to Honduras #2 of his second foul, which I saw as his second tactical foul, or his calling as simple foul the use of the forearm or elbow as a tool on aerial challenges.

    I think it helped that El Salvador’s plan B (crap, we’re trailing and need to score now!) was ineffective, especially from Honduras’ third goal (minute 75) on.
     
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  11. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member+

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    14 fouls through 30 minutes. He's tried the palms down and the "I've counted and thats 2" methods of man management but that doesn't seem to be phasing anyone out there.
     
  12. TxSooner

    TxSooner Member

    Aug 12, 2011
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    That’s unusual, whistling for half time on a corner.
     
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  13. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member+

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    19 fouls by HT. But by all means keep trying that calm down signal. Why Will Trapp didn't get a YC for a tackle into a knee I have no earthly idea.
     
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  14. TxSooner

    TxSooner Member

    Aug 12, 2011
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Good grief, wasn’t Omar warned in the first half?
     
  15. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member+

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Omar missed the ball and kicked the crap out of the Panamanian, to be followed by Altidore getting kicked in the chest. And still no cards.
     
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  16. YoungRef87

    YoungRef87 Member

    DC United
    United States
    Jan 5, 2018
    Dissent by Panamanians is getting worse...
     
  17. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member+

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Well at least we know he put his cards in his pocket.
     
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Altidore got like a 15-yard wall because Al-Jassim completely lost focus after the dissent. His crew has to help him.
     
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  19. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Leaping lunging challenge from behind that gets leg before any ball... no foul.

    Al-Jassim also has a habit of putting his hands on players when they have reason to be aggrieved with him rather than in more collegial moments. That’s not a good look and will backfire at some point one day, I’m sure.
     
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  20. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Working too hard to keep cards in pocket...
     
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  21. YoungRef87

    YoungRef87 Member

    DC United
    United States
    Jan 5, 2018
    No card for SPA...I hope this guy gets sent home.
     
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  22. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ha. That’s one way to frame it!
     
  23. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member+

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    29 or 30 fouls in total and he carded dissent. Woof.
     
  24. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was sitting at a table with three coaches. Two of them played forward when they played. When Pulisic was steer-wrestled down (OK, a slight exaggeration, but honestly not by a whole lot), all three looked at me. I just shrugged. All four of us knew it was an easy caution.

    A curious refereeing performance to say the least and yet another example of not wanting to use cards in international tournaments. Agreed that the Irmatov method of man management didn’t come close to working tonight.
     
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  25. Soccer Dad & Ref

    Oct 19, 2017
    San Diego
    I think he did fine for a game that didn’t mean anything, the players seemed fine with his management after the whistle. All except for the Panama dissent that was deserving
     

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