2019 Gold Cup Referee Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, May 17, 2019.

  1. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member+

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    He's let McKinnie off the hook. He had 3 fouls in less than 10 minutes and was out of control I thought.
     
  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I see keepers can charge 35 yards from goal to verbally and physically confront and accost an opponent, inflaming a mass con... but they better not come off their line on a penalty early.
     
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  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That red card in the 86’ had a strange yellow hue when shown.
     
  4. TxSooner

    TxSooner Member

    Aug 12, 2011
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    My wife even commented on the goalkeeper being that far from the goal during the mass confrontation.
     
  5. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If the red should have been for the Jones contact on Pulisic, I agree. That was more than a reckless flail, in my opinion. Of course, I was watching on my phone as I ceded the TV to my son after 4-0.
     
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  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Canada : Cuba - VILLARREAL (USA)
    Martinique : Mexico - BARTON (SLV)

    Not sure if Barton is well-liked or if that’s a second match to be done with him before knockout stages.

    Villarreal has the Andersons. That’s a good assignment.

    Elfath either for Costa Rica-Haiti and placement or the Honduras-El Salvador battle (which could be pointless if Jamaica wins, but still will be a tough match)? The other matches don’t make much sense.
     
  7. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hope it’s the former for Barton. I thought he did very well in the US-Guyana game, and he deserves some new challenges.
     
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  8. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Barton just cautioned Tata in the El Tri-Martinique match. Tata immediately calmed down and walked back to the bench. For me, it was the first time I was watching a game where I saw the referee issue a yellow card to a coach in a FIFA match.
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am liking Barton. He lacks some polish for sure, but given his age and his raw ability/instincts, he should have a long and bright future.

    He referees circles around Aguilar for me. Ironic that Barton wouldn’t be on the field most likely if Aguilar had passed fitness.
     
  10. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I didn't watch the whole match, but Barton impressed me more than any Central American ref in some time.
     
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  11. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Having watched Aguilar in person at the SKC-Independiente CCL match, Barton is going to be much better. I was not impressed at all by Aguilar in that match. Let too much time wasting go and did a poor job of protecting attacking players.

    If Barton is the new generation of Central American referees, I’m on board.
     
  12. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    From what was shown on tv, AR1 talked to him, C talked to him, then C cautioned him, so ask, ask, tell (card).
     
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Haiti : Costa Rica - ELFATH (USA)
    Bermuda : Nicaragua - ESCOBEDO (MEX)

    Normal ARs for Elfath, though they are swapping sides from the U20s.

    Knockout stage is going to be tough for American referees. The way the bracket is (with USA and Mexico deliberately kept apart until finals) Americans can only work the A-B games unless CONCACAF is cool with, for example, an American refereeing Panama v Jamaica for the right to play the US.

    Long way of saying I think Marrufo gets Canada vs whoever wins Group B and that might be it. I just don’t see how you fit Elfath in again after this and I don’t think Villarreal is on the radar for a second game.
     
  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Honduras : El Salvador - GUERRERO (MEX)
    Jamaica : Curacao - ORTIZ (MEX)

    No surprise that Guerrero gets that match once it was clear Elfath wouldn't. These ultimately were expected appointments, given how things shook out to-date. Guerrero is the one with a full Mexican trio, so he seems like the one you could see again next round.
     
  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If this match stays close, Elfath is going to have his hands full. He’s done really well so far but it’s already been a challenging match requiring a lot of management. I guess neither team wants to face Mexico next.
     
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good decision by Elfath for the penalty to Haiti. Both the foul recognition and the location.

    The incident immediately prior at the other end is intriguing. I think most people believed the defender tracked back to tackle the ball out for a corner. The reality is the attacker kicked the ball straight out of play and Elfath recognizes this, giving the goal kick. The tackle itself did nothing. But the defender had a fist full of jersey he was pulling to put the attacker off. It was one of those that isn’t given historically, but I think also a little hard not to give with VAR.

    This event really feels different without VAR.
     
  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Haitian player in 62’ is real lucky that SFP red cards really aren’t in fashion at international matches right now. That’s the type of minimal-contact two footed tackle that even gets a red in the EPL. If you had told me a few years ago that I could identify certain tackles that get red cards in England but not internationally, I would have been convinced you were insane. But here we are.
     
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    88’, it looks like Elfath just invented a foul against Costa Rica to prevent them from attacking on goal after Haiti had played the ball out for an injured player (who wasn’t really injured and just wasting time).

    It’s like an amateur match in Houston. Except it’s a continental championship.
     
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  19. ColoradoRef

    ColoradoRef Member

    Jul 10, 2011
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Elfath just called a phantom foul on CR because CR did not do the sporting thing after the ball was played out when a Haitian player went down injured in the penalty area. CR did not throw the ball back to Haiti when restarting play and almost had a scoring opportunity before Elfath called the foul. Can’t say I blame him.
     
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  20. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly the way I saw it too.

    Part of me can’t blame him. But part of me goes back to what I think might one day be his Achilles heel at the international level—he has a penchant for making things up or going outside the Laws (or maybe just forgetting a key detail) more than perhaps any other high-level referee I’ve seen. This is a FIFA referee who just gave the other team the throw-in once as a punishment for timewasting, rather than give the caution. Eventually that sort of stuff might catch up with you. But he’s basically one step away from the absolute top of the ladder now, so maybe not.
     
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  21. ColoradoRef

    ColoradoRef Member

    Jul 10, 2011
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    HA. We were typing at the same time.

    This used to be a potential issue when restarting with a dropped ball after an injury. Everyone would assume the player taking an unchallenged dropped ball would play the ball back to the team that had the injury. I once had an assessor ask me what I would do if, instead of passing the ball back, the player tried to score. I said I would blow the whistle before the ball went in and say it was an inadvertent whistle and restart with another dropped ball. He liked that answer. Thankfully I never had to do that, if only because I never put myself in that position.
     
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  22. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So Panama-USA has to be Lopez, right? The Mexicans work tonight, it can't be Pitti or a repeat official. Lopez seems to be the only referee who can work that game.

    CONCACAF is now going to be tested with the Mexico-Costa Rica assignment. If you don't give it to an American (and an argument could be made that you cannot do so, with the exception of Elfath) who do you give it to?.

    Joel Aguilar is not walking through that door. I guess it falls to Pitti (or Lopez, if he has enough rest).
     
  23. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    We obviously assume that Marrufo can't do Costa Rica Mexico due to his Dad.

    There is no chance for Villarreal to get that game? I'm genuinely asking. I, personally, think it could be an issue to put Villarreal on a Mexico match, but does CONCACAF and Costa Rica think that it is an issue (that's all that really matters).
     
  24. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm working under the assumption that FIFA--and now CONCACAF--are putting Elfath far ahead of Villarreal at the moment. Villarreal was essentially loaned Marrufo's ARs. And Elfath clearly got the better assignment of the two.

    This is a really weird setup. They used Marrufo early, who is clearly #1 in CONCACAF right now (particularly with Ramos out via injury). You would think they did so in order to use him again. But you now can't save him for a semi (USA or Mexico could be there, if not both) and the three QF options all have issues:

    Mexico - Costa Rica : familial history
    Canada - Haiti : both countries just had an American referee and the winner could face Mexico (so this seems to have the least conflict)
    non-American semifinal: the winner could face the USA

    I don't think either of the latter two are a nonstarter for Marrufo. CONCACAF must use him. But if they do, I'm not sure Elfath can also get a QF. At this point, based on paper and performance you would think the following referees are up for whistles:

    Marrufo
    Elfath
    Pitti
    Barton
    Lopez
    Guerrero
    Bejarano

    Either or both Martinez referees are probably your backup options.

    The problem is the USA, Panama, Mexico and Costa Rica are all involved in an 8-team tournament now, and those countries account for 5 of the 7 referees who likely deserve appointments on merit.

    If I were betting right now, I'd say:

    Pitti on the Mexico match
    Marrufo on the Canada match
    Guerrero on the USA match
    Bejarano on the non-USA C/D semifinal

    Barton and Lopez on the semis, with Final almost completely contingent on who advances and who doesn't.
     
  25. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The tackle in 90’ by Watson of Jamaica is worth a look.

    Borderline send off and certainly one if the Curaçao player doesn’t jump. Referee gives a throw in... to Jamaica. And indicates “he got ball.”

    And my head explodes.
     
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