2019 Gold Cup Referee Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, May 17, 2019.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Panama : Trinidad & Tobago - ESCOBEDO (MEX)
    United States : Guyana - BARTON (SLV)

    Barton is 28 years old and joined the FIFA list last year. So being at this tournament and getting a US match is a sign that CONCACAF has identified him for the future. Will be interesting to see how he does.

    I wonder who gets Mexico-Canada. With Aguilar done, Lopez and Pitti already used I also wonder how quickly Elfath-Parker-Atkins will be ready to work, considering they stayed in Poland until the end of the U20s. Putting an American on that match makes sense, but would it go to Villarreal if Elfath isn't ready?
     
  2. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Can Villarreal work a competitive Mexico game considering he is of Mexican descent? Has Marrufo ever worked a competitive Mexico match like a Gold Cup or World Cup qualifier?

    As our society gets more and more cosmopolitan and international these kind of things will start to become more and more of an issue.

    A great test case will be Ayetkin of Germany. He is of Turkish origin. Will UEFA put him on Turkish club matches in the CL and a Turkey match in a Euro or World Cup qualifier or at a Euro tournament. I'm assuming he'll take over as Germany's #1 after Brych.
     
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #28 MassachusettsRef, Jun 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
    I don't think this is an issue at all. Busacca did Italy and/or Italian clubs, right? This is a very slippery slope and I don't think it's an issue.

    This is different, given his father was a FIFA referee from Mexico. I know it's been said he can't do competitive Mexican matches, though I seem to remember him having a friendly recently? Bottom line is that, no, I don't think you'll see Marrufo on a Mexican Gold Cup, Nations League or WCQ match.

    I'm sure of the opposite!

    Ayetkin is 41 already and seemed to be effectively demoted since the PSG v Barcelona match. He had two UCL matches last year: Plzen-Real Madrid and Young Boys-Manchester United. Those appointments aren't exactly marquee; they seemed to be given more to save face for him. Zwayer, meanwhile, is 3 years younger and got Spurs-Barca, Inter-PSV, and PSG-Napoli plus Atletico-Juventus in the knockout stages. It's not even close. Then you have a bunch of other names competing to move up UEFA and FIFA ranks. In fact, if you look at Germany's list right now, despite being "Elite" I think Ayetkin is probably #8 on that list, with only Fritz and Welz behind him. Every other referee (presuming Brych hangs on one more year) has a chance at a UEFA or FIFA tournament as a CR or VAR... I really think Ayetkin's time is passed.
     
  4. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    Marrufo did the Mexico vs Bosnia-Herzegovina friendly last year.
     
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  5. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Now that you mentioned it, I looked it up and Busacca in his entire UEFA club match career did only 4 matches ever involving Italian clubs. He did three CL matches involving Italian clubs and they were in all in his second to last season in the 2009-2010 Champions League season.

    He did a UEFA Cup match involving Parma in the 2004-2005 season. Over a decade long career in Europe he only did 4 matches involving Italian clubs and to my knowledge he never refereed Italy in a competitive international.

    Maybe it was coincidence or timing that he didn't work more or UEFA decided to loosen up.

    While I do agree with you that it is a slippery slope, to not think it is not an issue is kind of naive. Don't you think? Maybe he does get a Mexico game at this tournament and I'm completely wrong.

    Referees don't get assigned to certain matches all the time due to certain geo-political factors to avoid the impression of bias.

    English referees can't referee Argentina due to the Falklands War. You almost never see English referees on any Scottish CL matches or home nation internationals. Referees from former Yugoslavia can't referee those countries, etc.

    Why would it be too far fetched or too much to not assign someone of Mexican origin/descent on a Mexico game?
     
  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Geopolitical is different than ancestry, though. Where would it stop? What if someone has a Mexican surname but their maternal grandparents came from Canada? You going to prevent the referee from doing both countries? The problem is this goes deeper than just a surname.
     
  7. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    I know Marrufo has and can do a Mexico friendly. He has done in the past and will continue to do so, but I specifically mentioned "competitive" international in my original post.

    Villarreal has refereed Mexico friendly matches, but, again, I don't believe he has done a competitive Mexico match.
     
  8. TxSooner

    TxSooner Member

    Aug 12, 2011
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Shouts for handling in Panama v T&T. Nothing really there that should be called and refreshing there is no VAR trying to create something.
     
  9. TxSooner

    TxSooner Member

    Aug 12, 2011
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    It took an extended period of time to manage a dropped ball after play was stopped with the US in clear possession for a Guyana injury.
     
  10. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I could give him the benefit of the doubt. This whole dropped ball rule is new where it’s never contested, and it looked like Bradley and Guyana we’re discussing whether the US would play it back to Guyana or just play it.

    Overall through 79 minutes, Barton has done pretty well. His foul recognition has been solid. A couple of cases where he maybe tried to overmanage, but that could be nerves. He moves well. He could have cautioned McKennie for persistence in the first half, but if I were him I’d feel pretty good about this being my first game with a “big country”.
     
  11. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    VAR doesn't try to create things.

    Please correct your thinking on this.
     
  12. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    It was clearly the players who did not know the new rule. The MLS players are still playing under the old rule. The ref was trying to explain what was happening, but the players seemed to want nothing to do with it.

    The Fox announcers were saying soon after that, the Guyana coach was yelling toward the 4th official and the US bench. I assume he didn't know the new rule either.

    He was very 'talky,' probably due to nerves or being new and trying to get the players attention. McKennie had three fouls over the entire 1st half. He would have been hard pressed to give that card at that point, but it could have.
     
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  13. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #38 RefIADad, Jun 19, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
    The idea that a referee could not do a Mexico match because of ancestry is crazy, so I agree with you 100%. God knows I'm no FIFA referee, but that would mean I couldn't do a match involving Denmark because my last name is very clearly a Danish last name. Forget that it was my great-grandparents who emigrated nearly 125 years ago from Europe . . .

    I do think it's logical and fair that Maruffo does not do competitive Mexico matches because his father was a Mexican FIFA referee. There is a clear familial connection to someone with noted history with the FMF. Obviously, teams don't appear to have an issue with Maruffo for Mexico friendlies given he has officiated them in the past. There is no such background with Villareal. I do not see at all why his last name and appearance should disqualify him from doing competitive El Tri matches.
     
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  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cuba : Martinique - AL JASSIM (QAT)
    Mexico : Canada - BEJARANO (CRC)

    Elfath is FO on the Cuba match, where Al Jassim had a good penalty but also pulled back a goal off a DFK for an off-the-ball foul that occurred before the ball was put in play. The call was fine enough, but restart should have been taken again.

    Tomorrow...

    Nicaragua : Haiti - ESCOBAR (GUA)
    Costa Rica : Bermuda - MARTINEZ (CUB)

    Villarreal is FO for Escobar.

    Presuming each referee gets at least one group stage match, going to be interesting to see where Elfath and Villarreal land. They can't be in Group D, of course. Honduras-El Salvador could be big on Matchday 3 in Los Angeles... maybe Elfath there? Villarreal on Martinque-Mexico or what could be one of the throwaway Group B matches? I don't know. Nothing seems all that obvious. And now that only the top 2 go through from each group, CONCACAF might not have as much room to maneuver on Matchday 3... we'll have to wait and see.
     
  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cuba and Al-Jassim are not on the same page. The 2CT that anyone watching this match saw coming, just came. He might not get out of here without another one, particularly if he draws a line on dissent.
     
  16. MNpenguin

    MNpenguin Member

    Jun 9, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This.

    Overall a good job. He did seem to be bending over backwards to avoid giving out a caution. There were opportunities offered (both ways) where a card would have been helpful for match management.
     
  17. gold4278

    gold4278 Member

    Feb 21, 2007
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maruffo has been a 4O for a Mexican Olympic Qualifier against Haiti years ago that will never erase from my memory due to being such an absurd game.
     
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And...?

    Also, just to keep up on all things American... Atkins was AR2 for Martinez. And for tonight:

    El Salvador : Jamaica - PITTI (PAN)
    Honduras : Curacao - CALDERON PEREZ (CRC)

    Parker is AR2 in the Honduras match.

    Pitti gets a second match before a lot of referees get a first one.

    So if Elfath and Villarreal both work, it will be in Matchday 3.
     
  19. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    United States : Trinidad & Tobago - MARTINEZ (HON)
    Guyana : Panama - PARCHMENT (JAM)

    Second assignment for Parchment. I haven't seen him yet. Looks like he's the next thing from the Caribbean in the ever-ending quest to find the next WC referee from the islands (2002 with Prendergast was the last whistle at a WC). He's 38 but only just joined the list two years ago, so he's got a small window. Somebody must have seen something good for him to get this opportunity.
     
  20. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Really poor offside decision by AR2 took away an OGSO for Jamaica at end of first half.

    The 84th minute caution felt like SFP to me.

    Pitti is certainly competent, which is something for CONCACAF. But I’m just not sure he has “it” and his ARs today were weak.
     
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  21. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I caught parts of the Honduras v. Curacao match. Parker had a tough offside decision he nailed around the 56th minute. He delayed the flag and pulled a goal from out of the net. The game ended up being decided by 1-0 scoreline and the goal disallowed would've been the tying goal.
    Very good decision by the American Assistant referee
     
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  22. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    I really dislike the uniforms these refs for the USA game are wearing.
     
  23. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    But so far, I like how Martinez has called the game, his work ethic, and trying to manage the players.
     
  24. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I kind of like the gray uniforms, but the other colors from Savi are bad. Our OSI uniforms are much better.
     
  25. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m really impressed with Martinez so far. Very consistent, and he seems willing to protect attacking players. We need more of that in CONCACAF.
     

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